Cream of the Crop 1/Cream of the Crop 1.iso/RELIGION/OB_92.ARJ/04-12-92

Text File | 1992-05-06 | 203KB | 4,230 lines

Date       04-05-92 07:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject    Agreement

 RH> ->  So what is God's plan for fixing His children so we can
 RH> parent sinle ->  children?   I want you to become a deep thinker
 RH> and address the real ->  problems that have to be resolved.
 RH> Unless God can teach us what it ->  that we need to do there
 RH> isn't much chance we will "accidentally" ->  cooperate with His
 RH> will.  God does need our cooperation ...right? ->
 RH>
 RH> That not what God said!!
 RH> "A new heart will i give you, and a new spirit will I put within
 RH> you: and I will take away the stony heart out of you fleeash,
 RH> and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit
 RH> within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall
 RH> keep my Judgments, and do them."
 RH>                                 Ezekiel 36:26-27

 Are you saying that God is responsible?

 Can God do His will without our cooperation?  Why do you suppose God
 has not "put" this new spirit within people already?  Clearly man has
 responsibility.  Look at all the commandments God gave to help man
 cooperate with His will. And notice that Jesus clearly said that you are
 responsible for your own salvation:

 MAT 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is]
 none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life,
 keep the commandments.

 RH> Looks like its all God to me!!
 RH> Thats what the Good Book says!!

 It won't hurt to recheck your math.  There are tons of scriptures that
 teach man about our portion of responsibility. Here are a few you must
 have overlooked:

 GEN 2:16    And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of
 the garden thou mayest freely eat: GEN 2:17    But of the tree of the
 knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day
 that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 MAT 7:7     Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find;
 knock, and it shall be opened unto you: LUK 11:9    And I say unto you,
 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it
 shall be opened unto you.

 MAT 16:27   For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father
 with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his
 works.

 REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may
 have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into
 the city.

 The following parable will help you understand if you invest the effort:

 But what think ye? A [certain] man had two sons; and he came to the
 first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and
 said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to
 the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I [go], sir:
 and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They
 say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you,
 That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before
 you. For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed
 him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye
 had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

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Date       04-05-92 07:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Wagner
Subject    God told me

 MW> God told me S.Y. Moon is not the Messiah. What do you think
 MW> about that?

 I would agree.  The messiah is the one who establishes the kingdom of
 God on earth.  Rev. Moon is still a candidate.  Since there is no one
 else running against him for this mission, why don't you vote for him?
 Any abstention from voting is a vote for Satan.

 REV 3:16    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,
 I will spue thee out of my mouth.

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Date       04-05-92 07:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Vail Rodney
Subject    HERE AND HEREAFTER

 VR> Any information derived from contact with these type of spirits,
 VR> invalidates
 VR> any information which is derived from them. Satan is a liar.

 One thing for sure, in a few years you and I WILL know without any doubt
 if this information about the spiritual world is correct.  You do plan
 on dieing don't you?

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Date       04-05-92 07:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Wagner
Subject    Isaac as sacrifice

 MW> Moreover, that fact that God planned the crucifixion of Jesus
 MW> before the planet was made is stated in Rev 13:8.

 Here is that old idea that God planned the fall as a way to get Jesus
 out of the house and give him something to do to make him some kind of
 hero.

 When I said that this crazy notion is what you get when you boil down
 the christian doctrine someone disagreed.  I hope they see you talking
 so they can see it for themselves.

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Date       04-05-92 08:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Brian Henderson
Subject    Nature of God

 BH> Oh, come now, Terry.  Did you ever take a ball at the end of a
 BH> string and whirl it around over your head?  Oh, boy, what a
 BH> miracle it does what it does?

 Your example proves my point... there is an input of external effort and
 consciousness.  I never say a ball at the end of a string whirling
 around by itself.  Now THAT would be a miracle !

 BH> Yeah, right.  The earth has a stable orbit because the outward
 BH> forces expended
 BH> by its rotation and revolution are balanced by the forces of
 BH> gravity exerted
 BH> on it by the sun.  It has nothing to do with a deity, but with
 BH> the natural, physical laws of the universe. After all, why does
 BH> the moon, or Jupiter, or any of the other planets have stable
 BH> orbits?  They are not necessary to the creation of life, so why
 BH> should your deity make them just as special as the Earth?

 I only brought to focus the position of the earth because it was
 rotating in that tiny zone of infinity that supported water in its
 liquid state. The fact that there is natural, physical laws in the
 universe is even more evidence of a creator.   Who made those laws?
 Did you?

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Date       04-05-92 08:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Trinity

 MJ> the commitments of family.  Some of the most Godly people I have
 MJ> known are single people; who will be in Heaven, with Christ,
 MJ> when they die, or the Lord returns for them.

 Jesus Christ did not go to heaven:

 LUK 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day
 shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 He can go there now.  He was married ( I think it was the 60's,  I'm not
 sure of the exact date).  His bride was a living woman.  I have never
 met her but someday I would like to. ...talk about a difference in age!

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Date       04-05-92 08:13:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject    Your reaching but coming

 CS> But I would like to see how you try to trist it to make do so.


 CS> TB>   Not only did Jesus Christ come in the flesh, but the Lord
 CS> of the the TB>   Second Advent will too.  Anyone who doesn't
 CS> confess this too is half TB>   anti-christ.  Where do you fit
 CS> in? TB>

 CS> the abve passage has to do with Christ Resurrection Who died and
 CS> was rasied again in the flesh!!!!!!!

 Let's talk about "twisting" now shall we?  You are shaking all over the
 page.... why even my monitor won't sit still !

 CS> Moon never died and was rasied in the flesh Christ My God was!
 CS> when Moon dies all he'll be good for is worm food!!

 Keep giving up your blessing.  While you are mouthing off spewing your
 hate and contempt your blessing is flowing to the one you are unjustly
 persecuting.  Rev. Moon spent almost 1 billion dollars in America to
 save this nation.  You are extremely indebted to him.  Someday you will
 have to repay that debt and unless you are Ross Perot you better find a
 good paying job !

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Date       04-05-92 08:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Children

 MJ> TB> Yes, because God is manifested His image, male and female,
 MJ> in the true TB> parents which are a reality since the marriage
 MJ> of the Lamb.
 MJ> WHAT??  What does this mean?

 It means that you are living in the last days.  If you want to know what
 is happening you need to seek out and understand the Divine Principle.
 It records the revelations Rev. Moon received from Jesus Christ
 beginning when he was 16 years old, Easter Sunday 1935.

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Date       04-05-92 09:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Patrick Wilson
Subject    Fundamentalist

 PW> TB> pleasure, so what the author of Genesis did was to make the
 PW> Canaanite TB> god the Yahwist devil.
 PW> TB> Look at some of the sexual implications of the story of the
 PW> fall: TB> 1. Forbidden fruit could have had aphrodisac
 PW> properties. etcetera...
 PW>
 PW> Terry,
 PW>    I gotta know.  Are your statements on this subject a product
 PW> of your observa
 PW> ions or are you basing them on a reference/research work?  I
 PW> have never heard
 PW> some of your proposistions before, and I am a terminal
 PW> researcher type. So, if you got them from a reference work,
 PW> could you PLEASE post the title, author
 PW> and ISBN number so I can find one to check out?

 Sure.  I never met anyone that was as serious as you that would really
 research and look up something.  I once posted references but quickly
 found out that I was usually talking to someone who thought they already
 knew everything.  Since I know that I know everything <grin> it was
 futile to try to show my references.

 It would really be best for you if I mailed you a book titled
 Unification Theology written by the late Dr. Yound Oon Kim, the first
 missionary to America.

 Here are some references about the sexual implications of the fall:

 Cf, R. Gordis,  The World and the Book ( 1976 ), pp 75-83

 J. Alberto Sogin, Old Testament and Oriental Studies (1975), pp 88-111.
 Soggin gives an excellent biblography on p. 102 (footnote) of boks in
 Engilish, German, Italian and French on the sexual intrepretation.

 Karen R. Joines, Serpent Symbolism in the Old Testament (1974)

 L. Jung, Fallen Angels in Jewish, Christian and Mohammedan Literature
 (1974) pp. 69 ff.

 Anselm, On the Virgin Conception and the Original Sin, chap. 9.

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Date       04-05-92 09:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     GOOD NEWS!

 CR> > send each
 CR> >  other cards every year wishing everyone peace on earth.
 CR>
 CR> And simply wishing this is going to bring it about?

 I made the point to show that everyone is already thinking about these
 lofty ideals you were writing about.
 CR>
 CR> Terry, we learn from reading God's Word the Bible that Satan is
 CR> the ruler of this world, who has been hurled out of heaven to
 CR> the earth knowing he has
 CR> a "short period of time." In light of this fact, it would be
 CR> foolish to think
 CR> that there can be true peace and security on earth as long as
 CR> he's the ruler
 CR> of it. God does promise us, though, that Satan, his demons along
 CR> with the wicked, will eventually be destroyed. And only then can
 CR> there be TRUE PEACE and SECURITY on earth.

 Correct, but you are missing a most important point: Who invited Satan
 to live with us?  Who must kick him out?  God did not invite Satan into
 the hearts of His children so God can't kick him out. We are responsible
 to bid Satan a farewell.  If God could have purged Satan from the hearts
 of His children without their cooperation He would absolutely have done
 it immediately after the fall.  You are overlooking man's portion of
 responsibility.


 TB>  Why has God and Jesus failed to convert fallen people to live a
 TB > holy lifestyle?

 CR> Your God may have failed, but not my God. My God hasn't failed
 CR> in anything. His original purpose for man WILL be fulfilled, but
 CR> in his own time.

 I can't buy this mistaken theory that God has some desire to let His
 children suffer in order to test them or teach them a lesson.  God has
 been trying to restore fallen man since He told Cain and Abel to make an
 offering.   God would have worked with Adam, but it was Adam who fell
 and came into the position to have two masters.


 Why can't you face the reality that God and Jesus, your church AND mine
 have not yet restored this world.  I call it failure until total victory
 is fulfilled.  You can live in an illusion that everything is hunk
 dory but people are really suffering and God, Christ and the creation is
 suffering too.

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Date       04-05-92 09:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     GOOD NEWS!

 CR> They rejected the Knowledge of Jehovah. Will God punish everyone
 CR> because of THEIR rejection, because of THEIR unfaithfulness?  No
 CR> Terry, he won't. He's a God of justice, remember?

 No, Absolutely not, God is not a punishing creator.  We simply haven't
 learned to obey universal spiritual laws so we suffer the consequences
 of violating the law, just as we would suffer from violating physical
 law by jumping out of an airplane without a parachute.

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Date       04-05-92 09:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Holiness

 TB> Right, but someone born right the first time doesn't need redemption
 TB> either.  Jesus Christ didn't need salvation or repentance did he?

 MJ> If you are honestly asking this question, you really don't
 MJ> understand, do you?

 Well, one of us doesn't understand something. What I was saying is that
 there must be a way to give birth to children like Jesus. He didn't need
 rebirth because he was born right the first time.

 MJ> Jesus was the Son of God, born of a virgin,
 MJ> who lived a sinless life because he was God, and had the nature
 MJ> of God.  For the rest of us "All have sinned and fall short of
 MJ> the glory of God."

 Well you got one out of three right.  We all have sinned...  but Jesus
 had a earthly father named Zacharias, and he was not God, he was God's
 son because the origin and motivation for his birth was not connected to
 the fall of man.

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Date       04-05-92 13:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Jehovah Is One

 CR> When Jesus prayed to God (his Father) he addressed HIM as the
 CR> "only true God."

 Most excellent !  Another virse to add to my collection that shows Jesus
 wasn't God.

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Date       04-05-92 13:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Jehovah Is One

 CR> How does this fit into the expression at Genesis 1:26 when God
 CR> said: "Let us make man in our image.."

 God was speaking with the angles not with Jesus.  Jesus did not exist
 before his birth, although the IDEAL or Word as it is called in the
 Bible for a perfect man did pre-exist his birth.

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Date       04-05-92 13:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    No agreement!

 MJ> Terry, what is this obsession you have with sinless children!?
 MJ> Care to explain it to me?  MJ> Again, what are you talking about??!!

 I'm talking about the fulfillment of the three blessings God gave to
 Adam that adam FAILED to fulfill.

                           Jesus and Fallen Man

 A fallen person is not comparable to Jesus.  A fallen person does not
 fulfill the Purpose of the Creation, and is far from the Heart of God.
 What is more, because he has original sin, he is in such a miserably low
 state that he even envies the angles, who were created to be man's
 servants, and he cannot free himself from Satan's accusation.  Thus,
 fallen man is very different from Jesus, who was a perfect, true person.
 However, though Jesus, who as to be the True Father, a fallen person
 will be restored as a spiritual child and will come to resemble Jesus.
 Then Jesus becomes the head of the Church (Eph 1:22), and fallen people
 are his body and members (1 Cor 12:27).  Jesus is the main temple and we
 are the branch temples; Jesus is the vine and we are the branches (Jn
 15:5).  In order to become true olive trees, we as wild olives shoots,
 should be grafted onto Jesus, who is the true olive tree (Rom 11:17).
 Thus Jesus called us his friends, and John said that when Jesus appears,
 we shall be like him (1 Jn 3:2).  The Bible also says that Christ is the
 "first fruits", and we shall be the next (1 Cor 15:23).

                          The Meaning of Rebirth

      Jesus told Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, that unless one is born
 anew, he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Jn 3:3).  Then, why must man be
 reborn?
      If Adam and Eve had fulfilled the Ideal for the Creation and had
 become true human beings, a true couple, and the True Parents, and had
 given birth to true children (without sin), the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth would have been realized.  However, because of their fall, they
 became false parents, and their descendants have original sin and have
 realized the Kingdom of Hell on earth.  Therefore, fallen persons cannot
 see the Kingdom of God unless they are reborn as heavenly children, free
 of original sin.
      We cannot be born without parents.  Fallen persons absolutely need
 parents of goodness who can give them rebirth as children without
 original sin, enabling each to enter the Kingdom of God.  Jesus was the
 True Father who came to give us rebirth as children of Goodness.
 Therefore, 1 Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
 Jesus Christ!  By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living
 hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ...". This
 shows that Jesus is the source of rebirth.  He is also called the "last
 Adam" (1 Cor 15:45) and the "Everlasting Father" (Is 9:6) because he was
 to be the True Father, which Adam failedt become.
      However, to give fallen persons rebirth as children of goodness,
 there must be not only a True Father, but also a True Mother.  The Holy
 Spirit is the one who works as the True Mother with the resurrected
 Jesus. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again -- born of
 the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).  Since the Holy Spirit came as True Mother,
 or second Eve, there are many who receive revelations, indicating that
 the Holy Spirit is a female spirit.  The Holy Spirit works to console
 and move the hearts of the people (1 Cor 12:3-10). Jesus has been
 working in the spirit world, while the Holy Spirit has been working on
 earth to cleanse the sins of mankind.  When we believe in Jesus, we
 enter the love generated by the cooperative relationship between the
 resurrected Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who are the spiritual True Father
 and spiritual True Mother, respectively.  Being born again by believing
 in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit means that one's spirit is made
 new and one receives true life through the love of the spiritual True
 Parents.  This is spiritual rebirth. However, since man fell both
 spiritually and physically, each person must be reborn both spiritually
 and physically.  This is the reason for the Second Coming.

      Up to the present, in accordance with Christian theology,
 Christians have understood that the God who has worked for the salvation
 of man is a Triune God and have believed that when he reveals himself he
 appears as one of three persons; Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.  When he
 reveals himself as the Creator, he is in the person of our Heavenly
 Father; when he reveals himself as the Saviour, he is in the person of
 the Son; and when he reveals himself as the peacemaker, he is in the
 person of the Holy Spirit.
      The theory of the Trinity has caused much debate throughout
 history. Let us look at this in light of The Principle.  If the Fall of
 man had not occurred, God would not have had to have Jesus and the Holy
 Spirit work for the salvation of man.  If Adam and Eve had perfected
 themselves as God's son and daughter, each becoming an embodiment of
 God's divine nature, then they would have been "'... perfect, as [their]
 heavenly Father is perfect'" (Mt 5:48), and they would have attained the
 ideal of union with God (Jn 14:20).  Then Adam would have become God's
 holy son, and Eve, his holy daughter.  They would have become true
 husband and wife, centered on God.  If Adam and Eve had then become one
 as the True Parents, centered on God, together with God they would have
 been the original Trinity, a trinity centered on God's Heart and ideal.
      This is the fundamental condition for realizing the Three Blessings
 and the Four Positions Foundation which fulfill God's Purpose for the
 Creation.  Yet, because of the Fall, Adam and Eve became the false
 parents of man, and failing to fulfill the Purpose of the Creation,
 formed a trinity centered on Satan.  Therefore, in order to fulfill the
 Purpose of the Creation, God had Jesus and the Holy Spirit take Adam's
 and Eve's places, as the second Adam and second Eve and as the True
 Parents.  However, in establishing the spiritual trinity centered on
 God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit accomplished only the mission of the
 spiritual True Parents.  Therefore, the Lord of the Second Coming comes
 to be the True Father who is to establish the trinity both spiritually
 and physically.

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Date       04-05-92 13:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Not the whole story...

 MJ> Now, gee, who could that messiah be...could it be...REV.
 MJ> MOON!!??
 MJ> Tell me, why will his last blessing "probably" be held in
 MJ> October of this year?
 MJ> And, by the way, in case you were wondering, Rev. Moon is NOT
 MJ> the messiah...

 He was appointed by Jesus to finish the work of salvation and restore
 the kingdom of God on earth.  If you don't believe me just ask God.

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Date       04-05-92 13:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Sermon

 MJ> Oh, the Rev.  Disregard my previous messages then, I now know
 MJ> where you're coming from....

 No you don't.  You don't know who Rev. Moon really is.  All you know is
 the missinformation the media has spread.  You have never talked to God
 about Rev. Moon.

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Date       04-05-92 13:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Spirit

 MJ> If you were to actually READ the Bible, you would now that God
 MJ> has instructed us to read and learn His Word.  Christians who
 MJ> quote the Bible are doing as God commanded.  Are you going to
 MJ> look at Jesus fending off Satan in the desert by quoting
 MJ> Scripture and say "Uh-oh, more Bible worship"?

 No, but I will look at those who were "fending" off Christ on the cross
 by quoting scripture...  and I will evaluate your position in light of
 Jesus instructions in John 5:39... and I do know that the people who did
 recognize the messiah upon his last coming were not those learned in
 scripture... why they didn't even knot that Elijah was supposed to come
 before Christ.  They had not even read Mal 4:5.   The ones who had not
 bound themselves to the letter of the law found salvation while those
 bound to the scripture heard Jesus say: "Woe unto ye..."  over and
 over... at least 15 of those times were recorded in Matthew and Luke.
 Given that reality of historical fact who do you suppose will recognize
 the return of Christ?

 MAT 7:22    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not
 prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
 name done many wonderful works? MAT 7:23     And then will I profess
 unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 MJ> You're right in one thing:  The Bible is NOT God, but it is the
 MJ> WORD of God, and, to quote it, "All Scripture is God-breathed
 MJ> and is usefull for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training
 MJ> in righteousness."  (I Timothy 3:16)

 Just don't get caught in the position of rebuking Christ or his
 followers with scripture like those who criticized Christ and MURDERED
 him 2,000 years ago...

 MAT 18:6    But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which
 believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about
 his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

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Date       04-05-92 13:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    The Resurrection

 MJ> No, but I believe every individual has the choice to accept
 MJ> God's teachings or not.  I'm going to Heaven because I'm saved.
 MJ> My wife is going to Heaven because SHE is saved, not because *I*
 MJ> am.  But if one of my kids (hypothetical, we don't have any yet)
 MJ> was UNSAVED, then they will spend eternity separated from God.

 Pleas wait for at least one more year before you have any children, and
 pray that God can show you a way to have children that are in His direct
 lineage, that will not be in need of rebirth.  I know you may think that
 I am confused and crazy or whatever, or that such a child is only
 possible for a woman named Marry that lived 2,000 years ago, but there
 is a wonderful opportunity open to mankind that you can discover and
 benefit from beyond your highest hopes.

 Look, I know that my frustration has allowed me to respond to you and
 others in a way that was not as loving or detailed about the things I
 was teaching.  But don't allow my shortcomings or the negative publicity
 and persecution of Rev. Moon to prevent you from seriously talking to
 God about this man and his mission.  If you will give God an opportunity
 and keep an open mind and knock on the door and God does not show you
 clearly that there is a way for you and your wife to parent sinless
 children, then go ahead and raise your family with the clear conscious
 that you did give God a chance to work.  But first try to get God's
 response about this matter and wait awhile.  Please.

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Date       04-05-92 15:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Are the dead really ly d

 PM>     I pray that each day I will learn more and more of God's
 PM> Will.

 God has answered your prayers.  He lead you to read my messages !

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Date       04-05-92 15:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      Free Will

 PM> TB> And the real answer is:  ta da ..~~~'''***   He comes born
 PM> of a TB> woman!
 PM>                     H U H ???

 Then how will the Second Coming of Christ take place?  In considering
 this, let us first look at the second coming of Elijah.  In fact, the
 second coming of Elijah is the clearest example that God has given us
 related to how Christ will come again.

 Through the prophet Malachi, God promised to send Elijah again, before
 the coming of the Messiah (Mal 4:5).  So Israelites of that time who
 were waiting for the Messiah were actually waiting for the second coming
 of Elijah, because he was to precede the Messiah.  Because the second
 coming of Elijah was to be the return of the Elijah who had ascended
 into heaven, the people believed that Elijah would surely descend from
 heaven.  Yet, Jesus clearly declared that John the Baptist, who was born
 on earth, was Elijah (Mt 11:14; 17:13). However, that the second coming
 of Elijah took place through John the Baptist does not mean that Elijah,
 himself, was born again as John the Baptist.  Elijah was in the spirit
 world, helping John the Baptist, who was on earth, since John was born
 with the same mission (Lk 1:17). So, although the mission was the same,
 the person was different.

 Through this lesson learned from the second coming of Elijah, we can
 understand that the Second Coming might possible take place by the
 Lord's being born on earth.  We can also understand that though at the
 Second Coming, the Lord, as the Messiah, will have the same mission as
 Jesus, he may not have the same appearance as Jesus (Jn 14:16,17; 16:12;
 Rev 19:12; 2:17).

      From what is shown in the examples of Elijah's second coming and
 Jesus' coming, both of which were the direct work of God, one cannot
 help but give serious thought to the prophecies for the Second Coming.
      In summary, the New Testament not only contains prophecies that say
 Christ will come as a judge amidst glory on a cloud from heaven, but
 also some that say he will come again just as he did the first time,
 quite contrary to the other type of prophecy of his coming on the
 clouds.
      We read in Luke 17:24,25 that Jesus, anticipating what was going to
 happen at the Second Coming, said," '...so will the Son of man be in his
 day.  But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this
 generation.'"  If the Lord should come again amidst power and glory,
 with the trumpet call of the archangel, who would dare deny and
 persecute him?  Would you persecute him?
      Today, many faithful Christians and churches are looking up to the
 sky, waiting for the Lord to come on the clouds.  If he were to come on
 the clouds, there would be no reason for him to be persecuted. However,
 if he does not come on a literal cloud, and instead comes in the flesh,
 as at the First Coming, then it becomes apparent why Jesus said he would
 first suffer before finally being recognized (Lk 17:24,25).
      Revelation 12:5 says," ...she brought forth a male child, one who
 is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught
 up to God and to his throne."  The man who will rule the world with a
 rod of iron is the coming Lord.  In this verse, it says that he will be
 born of a woman.  When the Pharisees wanted to know the time of the
 Second Coming, they asked Jesus when the Kingdom of God was coming, and
 he answered,"...'The Kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be
 observed...'" (Lk 17:20).  Everyone can gaze up at heaven, but Jesus
 said that the coming of God's Kingdom, in other words, the Second Coming
 will not be visible.  Why is that so?  It is because the Messiah does
 not come on a literal cloud.  In Luke 18:8, Jesus said, " 'I tell you,
 he will vindicate them speedily.  Nevertheless, when the Son of man
 comes, will he find faith on earth?' "Jesus was prophesying that he
 would not find faith on earth at his second coming.  This means that
 when he comes, there will be almost no one who will be saved by their
 complete faith.  Why is this so?
      Of course, not all believers on earth have perfect faith, but there
 are people all over the world who are going the way of true faith. Then
 why did Jesus imply that he would not find faith?  Furthermore, who
 would fail to recognize the Lord coming on a literal cloud? Certainly
 even non-believers would recognize him and have faith in him.  Will
 people lack faith because someone will prevent them from having it?
 Certainly not.  Difficulties do not necessarily weaken a person's faith.
 We interpret Jesus' saying that he would not find faith on earth to mean
 that he is going to come in the same manner as at the first coming.
      When Jesus came two thousand years ago, there was great faith - of
 a sort - among the people.  Some prayed day and night in the temple, and
 they memorized the commandments.  They tried hard to keep all of the
 commandments and laws that God had ordered them to keep.  They
 faithfully offered their tithes, and they fasted.  In this sense, they
 had great faith in God, yet there was no true faith.  Why didn't they
 have a faith that would allow them to believe in Jesus as the Messiah
 sent by God?
      From this viewpoint, Jesus could not find any faith on earth!
 Similarly, today there are millions of good Christians waiting for the
 Lord to appear - on the clouds; but if he comes in the same way as he
 did before, will he find the faith that will enable Christians to
 recognize him?
      To emphasize once again, based on the Bible passages quoted above
 and on the lessons learned from God's work in history, the Second Coming
 will occur as the first coming did, with the Messiah's being born in the
 flesh on earth.  Indeed, he comes as the Son of man.

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Date       04-05-92 15:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject        QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 PM> TB> Rev. Moon has the cure for aids.  ...celibacy !

 PM>     As smart as I credit you with being, something fails to
 PM>     ring true with your message, outside of AIDS being
 PM>     transmitted in ways that are entirely non-sexual.

 In keeping with my "smart credit,"  maybe you could specify exactly what
 you meant when you said "something that fails to ring true"...?

 Give me a chance to restore my credibility!

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Date       04-05-92 20:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND>       This is where I disagree. (by the way, hello!)

 That is permitted. <Grin>  If didn't have something to teach that you
 didn't already know then we both would be wasting our time.

 ND> I believe that Adam and Eve did make a mistake, though not a
 ND> sexual one.

 Have you carefully reviewed all the evidence?  Here is a simple brief
 review of the sexual implications of the fall:

 First, the tree of life was symbolical.  Check "tree of life" in a cross
 reference and see if we agree thus far.

 Second, if the tree of life was symbolical, the tree that grew beside it
 was also symbolical.

 Third, literal fruit does not grow  on symbolical trees.

 What is this fruit that was more desirable that life?

 Only love is more desirable than life.

 Fruit is the reproductive part of the plant.

 The fruit, is not literal, it is symbolic for reproductive love.

 Adam and Eve were naked and unashamed before they shared the fruit but
 ashamed of their nakedness afterwards.

 Later God told Abraham to purify his sexual part through the draining of
 blood of circumcision.  This indicated something about the sexual parts
 needed to be purified. After Abraham obeyed the instructions, He then
 became the father of the Jewish faith.

 All major religions have put fornication, adultery and promiscuity among
 the greatest of sins.

 Jesus said that it was not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man.

 Jesus and John the Baptist both stated that fallen man had a blood
 relationship with the devil.

 We can find no place in the scripture or any literature of any major
 religion where God has ever blessed any couple in marriage.  But, we the
 hope of christianity is the marriage of the Lamb.

 ND> I also believe that we are punished for our own
 ND> mistakes, and not for one made by Adam.

 First, I don't agree that we are being punished.  We suffer alright, but
 it is a result or consequence of violating spiritual laws.  Just as we
 will suffer if we break physical law we will suffer the consequence.
 That is not really punishment the way I see it.

 Second, there are scriptures that indicate we inherit the consequences
 of sin and blessing from our previous generations.  Here are a couple:

 JOH 9:2     And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin,
 this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

 ROM 5:12    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and
 death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have
 sinned:

 Third, common sense tells us that if all children were born pure and
 sinless like Jesus then based on the estimate that over 25 billion
 people have once been born into this world, it is inconceivable that
 only one of those would grow up to become perfect.


 ND> I believe that because of Adam, the bodies that would
 ND> have been perfect (had he not have eaten of the forbidden fruit)
 ND> will now eventually die.

 So you do agree that Adam's sin carrier repercussion we have to live
 with even though you previously stated that we are only responsible for
 our own mistakes?

 All morphological beings pass through stages of formation, growth,
 completion then they age and die.  If sin is the reason we grow old then
 there is no reason that animals should grow old and die. Cows, horses,
 goats, dogs, etc. never sinned.

 Anyway, God created the spirit of man before the fall because man was to
 develop the his spirit while on earth and then after death man's spirit
 would go on to live eternally in the spiritual world.  If man was not
 meant to eventually die there would be no need for God to have given us
 an eternal spirit.  God did not give man a spirit after the fall because
 the fall brought on physical death.

 ND> This leads me into Jesus Christ. Because of Jesus Christ's atonment,
 ND> we can still recieve our immortal bodies.  1Cor 15:22
 ND> in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

 Go to the next message and let me share with you my understanding of the
 Biblical concept of life and death.

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Date       04-05-92 21:09:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 Let us consider the biblical meaning of the words 'life' and 'death'.

 In Luke 9:60 we read that to the disciple who wanted to go home for his
 father's funeral, Jesus said, "'... Leave the dead to bury their own
 dead ...'".  In these words of Jesus we find two different concepts of
 life and death.  One concept is concerned with the physiological
 functioning of the physical body.  The other is concerned with the
 people who would gather for the burial of the disciple's father.  Why
 did Jesus indicate that those people who would attend the funeral were
 dead when they were actually alive?  It was because, being under Satan's
 dominion, they were ignorant of the purpose of life and did not know
 God, who is the source of life. Revelation 3:1 says, "'... you have the
 name of being alive and you are dead.'"  From this verse we can see that
 even though a person is physically alive, if he is under Satan's
 dominion, then from Jesus point of view he is dead.  With this view of
 death, life would then mean to be within God's dominion, fulfilling the
 God-given purpose of life.  In John 11:25, 26 Jesus said, "'... he who
 believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and whoever lives and
 believes in me shall never die.'"  This tells us that whoever is
 connected to God's dominion through Christ is alive, regardless of
 whether his physical body is dead or alive and regardless of whether he
 is on earth or in the spirit world.

                       The Death Caused by the Fall

 The need for resurrection is a result of the death caused by the Fall.
 Let us consider which of the two kinds of death mentioned above is the
 death resulting from the fall of the first human ancestors.  Man's
 physical body is destined to return to the earth after it becomes old
 and dies.  If God had intended human beings to live eternally on earth
 in their physical bodies, there would have been no need to create the
 spirit world for spirit selves to go to.  God created the spirit world
 before man fell; he did not create it after the Fall simply to provide a
 dwelling for the spirit selves of fallen people.  It was always God's
 plan that man's physical self return to earth and that his spirit self
 dwell eternally with God in the spirit world (Eccles 12:7).  Physical
 death is not the death caused by the Fall.

 When God told Adam and Eve that they would surely die on the day that
 they ate of the Fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (Gen
 2:17), the death referred to was not physical death.  We see in Genesis
 that Adam and Eve continued to be active and alive and to have children
 for more than nine hundred years after they ate the Fruit of the Tree of
 the Knowledge of Good and Evil.  Yet, if we are to believe God's Word,
 then in some sense they must have died the moment they broke God's
 commandment.

 God's love is the source of life.  Therefore leaving the realm of God's
 love is entering into Satan's realm, where there is no true love, is
 death.  In 1 John 3:14 we learn that "He who does not love abides in
 death".  Also, Roman's 8:6 and Romans 6:23 respectively tell us, "To set
 the mind on the flesh [to be carnally minded] is death, but to set the
 mind on the Spirit is life and peace," and "... the wages of sin is
 death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus ...".
 So from the Bible's viewpoint, the death which was caused by the Fall is
 the state resulting from sin -- the state of being separated from God's
 love.

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Date       04-05-92 21:10:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject        WITNESSING

 ND>      I believe that the second coming of Elijah, or Elias; John
 ND> the baptist, was not actually Elijah, but had the spirit of Elijah
 ND> (not literally).

 By George, I think you've got it!

 ND> Elijah was used as a symbol for another great prophet, also a
 ND> forerunner like John the baptist.
 ND>     I also believe that the second coming of Jesus Christ is not
 ND> in any way a symbol. I believe that Christ will come down to
 ND> Earth from Heaven, in the flesh, the same way he was before his
 ND> assention.

 So why don't you give serious consideration to the possibility that
 there return of Christ could be fulfilled in the same manner as the
 second coming of Elijah?

 Consider this... Suppose you and your friend discussed this manner and
 you concluded that Christ could and probably would return as a man and
 his second coming would take place like the second coming of Elijah, but
 your friend insisted that Christ would drop out of the sky.  So you are
 looking for a man that is born from a woman and is persecuted and
 misunderstood like Jesus was.

 Now let's suppose you are correct and such a return happens in the way
 you expected.  Is there any possibility that your friend would find
 Christ at his second coming?

 What if you would be wrong then one day your friend was correct and
 Christ did drop in like the astronauts.  It would be on the news and
 everyone would realize Christ had come.  Unlike your friend, you would
 not miss the event, you would simply say "Oops, I made a mistake."  and
 fly away with Jesus and your friend.

 Which expectation is the safest?  Why would anyone take a chance on
 missing the return of the Messiah when there are so many scriptures that
 tell us that the Messiah will come as a thief in the night, without
 observations and in order to be sure we can be awake to find him we MUST
 pray without ceasing?

 Some may say I am placing myself in a position to be easily deceived by
 someone claiming to be Christ. But I'm going to keep an open mind, as a
 child, and not prejudge what I think God may do, thus limiting myself to
 the possibilities.  The reality is that there are just not that many
 people claiming to be sent by God.  Many people like your founder, and
 the founder of other faiths like the Jw's claim to have had revelations
 from God, but if I had to track down and check our every person who
 claimed to have been given the mission by God through a revelation from
 Jesus Christ, to build the kingdom of God on earth, the list would not
 have over 10 names on it. Furthermore, one day of research could easily
 reduce that list to 2 or 3 names.  Then I know I could add none of the
 above to the list and take that list to God and tell Him I have a simple
 multiple choice question for him. If there is a Just God and He refused
 to answer me there is simply no way He could allow me to go to hell for
 doing the wrong thing after making that effort.

 ND> As for te clouds, I do not believe that they were
 ND> clouds of people, I have no reason to. Clouds have always
 ND> symbolized God's presence in the Bible and that's the way I take
 ND> them here.

 First check this interpretation of the meaning of water:

 REV 17:15   And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where
 the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and
 tongues.

 Now consider this usage of the term clouds:

 HEB 12:1  Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a
 cloud of witnesses,

 See the next message for more about this topic.  I want to try and
 answer your last question before I reach the 99 line limit.

 ND>     Do you believe that Elias, or Elijah, 's actually had a
 ND> second coming through John the Baptist? Is this the same way you
 ND> believe Christ to have a second coming through  Sun Myung Moon.

 First, I have to be sure you understand that I do not believe the second
 coming of Elijah was any kind of reincarnation.  Once you have died, you
 cannot come back in another body.  However, in order to advance to a
 higher realm in the spiritual world, you can assist people on earth who
 have a similar mission and through helping them fulfill their mission
 you can receive some benefit.  That is why Moses and Elijah were seen
 talking with Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.  They were cooperating
 with him, trying to help him bring about the kingdom of God on earth,
 from their position in the spiritual world.  In fact after Jesus
 crucifixion, many saints of the Old Testament age were resurrected from
 their graves and went into the Holy City and appeared to many.  Why were
 they appearing? Were they not witnessing that Jesus was the Christ?  Why
 were they only seen by some people and not others?  If the Roman
 Soldiers had seen them there could never have possibly been any
 persecution of christianity. These saints appeared to people who were
 prepared to establish the spiritual body of Christ, the church.
 Oops, two lines left.  So, Yes, I believe Rev. Moon was born to fulfill
 the second coming of Christ.  Put his name on the list when you give God
 the multiple choice quiz.  <grin>

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Date       04-05-92 21:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject        WITNESSING

 ND> Clouds have always symbolized God's presence in the Bible and
 ND> that's the way I take them here.

 The Kingdom of Heaven on earth which Christ is to build is not to be a
 Kingdom of Heaven in fantasy.  The Kingdom of Heaven cannot be realized
 by supernatural miracles but only by man's fulfilling his responsibility
 to solve all of the problems in a realistic way, in accordance with
 God's guidance.

 Salvation cannot take place in those who do not respond to God's work.
 However, it is God's desire for all mankind to be saved because he is
 the God of righteousness and love.  Since God's Ideal for the Creation
 is not fulfilled with the perfection of an individual's character, God's
 dispensation for salvation also does not end with the salvation of the
 individual.  Therefore, Christ, who at the Second Coming will completely
 fulfill God's ideal, will not be bound by any particular denomination of
 Christianity, but will transcend all denominations. He will work to
 establish one world under God, transcending tribal, national, and racial
 boundaries.

 If the Lord is to appear on earth in the flesh, then what is the meaning
 of coming on the clouds?  What is meant by clouds?  Clouds are vaporized
 water.  Regardless of how dirty water might be, when it evaporates into
 a cloud, it becomes purified.  According to Revelation 17:15, water
 symbolizes fallen or sinful man.  Then, clouds signify the people
 resurrected or reborn as saints from among the fallen people.  The
 metaphor that Christ will come on the clouds means that he will come
 again among the saints that God prepares.

 Then why did Jesus say he would come again on the clouds?  First of all,
 it was to prevent the deceptions of antichrists.  Until the actual time
 of his coming, it was better to let people believe that he would come on
 the clouds.  If it had been clearly explained that Christ would appear
 in the flesh on earth, the confusion caused by claims of many anti-
 christs could hardly have been prevented.  However, when the time is
 imminent, God will surely tell us how the Messiah is to come (Amos 3:7).

 Secondly, it was to encourage the disciples in their religious life,
 which was to be a difficult course.  Actually, Jesus said several things
 about the Second Coming that do not seem completely understandable.
 Revelation 22:20 says, " 'Surely I am coming soon.' " Matthew 10:23,
 Jesus said, " '...for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone
 through all the towns of Israel, before the Son of man comes.' "  In
 Matthew 16:28, he said, " 'Truly, I say to you, there are some standing
 here who will not taste death before they see the Son of man coming in
 his kingdom.' "  In John 21:18-22, he also spoke as though he would come
 again during John's lifetime.  In all of these passages Jesus emphasized
 that the Second Coming would take place soon (relative to his time).
 Yet, it did not happen.  Then why did Jesus say it would?  What was
 Jesus' reason for speaking that way?

 Jesus foresaw the persecution by the Roman Empire, so he had to educate,
 encourage, and give hope to his disciples in such a way thatChristianity
 would survive the miserable persecution and quickly prepare the world
 -wide foundation for the Second Coming.  The early Christians were able
 to remain enthusiastic and zealous because they believed that Jesus'
 second coming was imminent and that he would come from heaven on clouds
 in the power and glory of God.  Because of this belief, they had the
 strength to withstand the oppression and persecution of the Roman Empire
 and thus establish the early Christian Church.

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Date       04-05-92 21:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject        WITNESSING

 ND>      One can not be born out of the womb twice, the Jews of the

 Forgive me, but I though Mormons believed in a collection of souls that
 were waiting somewhere for their turn to come to earth.  Are you saying
 that they are used just once and not recycled?  If that be the case,
 they we may run out sooner that I first calculated.

 ND> Bible knew that, such as Nicodemus. Rev says that one born of a
 ND> woman, in other words, Jesus Christ! Jesus Christ, even through
 ND> he ascended to heavn was still born of a woman!
 ND> Rev. Moon is not ruling the Earth with a rod of iron,

 Is time running out?

 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth
 her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven
 departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and
 island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and
 the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty
 men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens
 and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks,
 Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne,
 and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come;
 and who shall be able to stand? And after these things I saw four angels
 standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the
 earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor
 on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the
 seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four
 angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt
 not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the
 servants of our God in their foreheads.

 I had not carefully read this before I was led to post it to you. But
 now that I have, I notice several important points, beside the obvious
 answer to your question.

 First it mentions the stars of heave fell unto the earth.  Do you know
 what that means?  In Joseph's dream in Genesis, the stars were the
 symbols for the children. Who are the children today? Christianity is in
 the position of children of God. What is significant about falling to
 earth?  Who else fell to earth?

 Next, notice where the angel, with the seal of the living God, ascended
 from that said hurt not the earth.. till we have sealed the servants of
 God...  Yes the East !

 ND> and is very
 ND> mortal indeed and in deed. I hope I am not being a pharisee, but
 ND> i can not belive that Moon is Jesus Christ's second coming.

 Believe me, I understand.  Take a moment and consider John 1:44:

 Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter. Philip
 findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses
 in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of
 Joseph. And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out
 of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. Jesus saw Nathanael
 coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is
 no guile! Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus
 answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou
 wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Nathanael answered and saith unto
 him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. Jesus
 answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under
 the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye
 shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending
 upon the Son of man.

 Let me simply tell you something...  If you believe you can see.

 I'm not suggesting you have blind faith, but if you want to know, if you
 have a desire for truth and you take it to God, I say unto you,
 Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and
 descending upon the Son of man.

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Date       04-06-92 09:01:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bryan Wilson
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE HUMAN

 BW>        I never meant to minimize anything that you have been
 BW> through. I was trying to convey something about a conception
 BW> about God that is not aligned with Scripture.  However, since I
 BW> don't have the original post, I am lost as to how I am supposed
 BW> to clarify for you.

 Here is your original post:

 BW>        Apparently, you have received a taste of the agapEn tou
 BW> Theou (love of God).  I use agapEn 'cause I don't want God's
 BW> love confused with any other "love".  However, you also have not
 BW> had a good taste for God's holiness--his moral purity and the
 BW> fact that he is infinitely different than humankind.

 My point is this:  How can I judge whether or not you have had a good
 taste, a bad taste, or no taste at all of God's holiness, moral purity
 etc.     How do you judge/discern/evaluate what I have experienced?  It
 seems to me that to do such a thing would require some kind of special
 gift or talent that most humans don't possess.

 Take Jesus' coming as an example.  Everyone had the wrong impression of
 this man.  Look at some of the statements they made about him:

 JOH 1:46    And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come
             out of Nazareth?

 MAT 12:24   But when the Pharisees heard [it], they said, This [fellow]
             doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the
             devils.

 MAR 3:22    And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He
             hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he
             out devils.

 MAT 11:19   The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say,
             Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of
             publicans and sinners.

 LUK 7:34    The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say,
             Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of
             publicans and sinners!

 How did Jesus appear to the Israelites of the time?  Jesus was an
 obscure young man raised in a humble carpenter's home and was not known
 to be experienced in spiritual disciplines.  Yet, Jesus proclaimed
 himself "lord of the sabbath" (Mt 12:8), was known as one who was
 abolishing the law (Mt 5:17), was the friend of tax collectors and
 sinners, and was known as a glutton and a drunkard (Mt 11:19).  He put
 himself on an equal footing with God (Jn 14:9-11) and told the people
 that they had to love him more than anyone else (Mt 10:37). Because of
 this, the Jewish leaders went so far as to claim that Jesus was working
 by the power of Beelzebub, the prince of demons (Mt 12:24).


 If people could not tell that the son of man was different from the
 common man, how can we be sure of the spiritual maturity/experience of a
 person who writes a few messages in this conference?   Some people make
 their level of maturity clear and obvious through their childish remarks
 and contempt toward people who disagree with them, but after these goats
 are separated from the flock should we really try to grad the quality of
 wool that is on the remaining sheep?  I'm here because I can learn.
 When I am challenged on a topic I have to think deeply and clarify
 points within myself.  This is where true learning really takes place.

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Date       04-06-92 11:42:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Johnson
Subject     HERE AND HEREAFTER

 GJ> I read the excerpts you provided. I can't say I agree with the
 GJ> idea of communica
 GJ> ing with the spirits of the dead, (As Phillip pointed out)
 GJ> however I did find
 GJ> the message interesting and recognize the time and effort that
 GJ> it took for you to provide us with those messages. Thanks for an
 GJ> interesting message.

 I appreciate your appreciation.  Although those excerpts were not the
 teachings of my faith, they did support concepts about the spirit world
 I believe to be accurate.  It was time consuming to extract those 300
 lines I typed from 50 pages of the text of the first chapter.

 Actually, the main point that I got from reading and typing this is that
 we really don't know for sure what lies after death.  If we are stuck in
 some narrow minded view of what should happen and we are mistaken,
 anyone that is trying to guide us will have a most difficult job.  AND
 we would be the ones to loose any opportunities that are open to us.

 Have you had any personal experiences to confirm or deny the reality of
 the spiritual world?  Do you have any insight as to what may lie ahead
 of us when we pass from this world?  I know the environment in the
 conference is NOT conducive to support people to share their personal
 experiences, but if you can withstand criticism from the cynics I would
 like to hear from your personal experiences on this topic of life in the
 hereafter.

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Date       04-06-92 11:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dean Scott
Subject    Spirits & Magic

 DS> Can this David Copperfield actually fly without human,
 DS> mechanical, or optical
 DS> aids?  Did we really see him 'fly' as though he were being
 DS> carried by an unseen
 DS> being or was this an optical illusion?  What is a magical
 DS> illusion?

 I did not see the show, but I have an opinion:

 NO, it was not an illusion.  He was really flying !   He learned how to
 immitate Jesus at the second coming !

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Date       04-06-92 15:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carlos Manzanares
Subject    Qualification To Bo Be

 CM> TB> Rev. Moon has the cure for aids.  ...celibacy !
 CM>
 CM> Well, If everyone remained celibant, that would be the end of
 CM> the human race.  The answer to AIDS is not celibancy, but
 CM> MONOGAMY!!!  If everyone had only one sexual partner in their
 CM> lifetime, it would greatly (although not completely) reduce the
 CM> threat of AIDS.

 Yes, but can you persuade people to remain celibant before marriage and
 monogamous afterwards?  Rev. Moon is the only man in history that has
 been able to do this and go on to bless over 24,000 couples in holy
 matrimony.  Do you know why he can do this?  He discovered the fall of
 man was the misuse of sexual love. Jesus understood, but was murdered
 before he could clearly teach about the fall.  His departing words were
 that he would someday tell us plainly of the Father.  Rev. Moon began
 his ministry because Jesus appeared to him in a revelation and explained
 that his (Jesus') mission was to marry and and restore the family but
 the people would not accept him and murdered him before he could fulfill
 the marriage of the Lamb and raise a family.

 Jesus did not tell Rev. Moon that Eve was sexually seduced by Lucifer at
 the fall, but as Rev. Moon pondered the thought that Jesus came to be a
 husband and a father and to restore the family, he discovered the secret
 of the fall that had been counseled for so long.  When Rev. Moon asked
 Jesus if the fall involved an illicit sexual relationship, premarital,
 before Adam and Eve were mature, Jesus denied it.  Rev. Moon thought
 about it more and asked Jesus a second time.  Jesus still denied it.
 Finally after a great deal of thought Rev. Moon told Jesus a third time
 that an illicit sexual relationship between Eve and Lucifer and after
 that between Eve and Adam had to have been the cause of the fall. At
 this third meeting, Jesus confirmed Rev. Moon's theory.

      In the Garden of Eden, the only sin that man would possible commit
 at the risk of his life was a sin involving love.  Adam and Eve were to
 grow as brother and sister, and, after perfecting themselves, were to
 establish the Kingdom of Heaven by becoming the first husband and wife
 and creating God's family, fulfilling the Purpose of the Creation.
 However, when Jesus says in John 8:44, "'You are of your father the
 devil...,'" he clearly shows that fallen people are descendants of the
 Devil.  Adam and Eve forsook God, their true father, and became one with
 a false father, Satan, which is the reason that Romans 8:23 says, "...we
 ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we
 wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies" (emphasis
 added).  The fact that we are waiting for adoption into God's lineage
 tells us that we are not of God's lineage.  In Matthew 3:7 and Matthew
 23:33, respectively, John the Baptist and Jesus called the people a
 "brood of vipers"--in other words, the offspring of serpents-clearly
 indicating that fallen man is the offspring of Satan.  Thus we can
 clearly understand that fallen man belongs to Satan's lineage, not
 God's.  This is the result of Eve's committing the sin of fornication
 with the angel.  As a result of this crime, all human beings have been
 born as the "children" of Satan.

 Since a tree reproduces itself by its fruit (which bears the seeds) and
 man reproduces by a sexual relationship, then the Fruit of the Tree of
 the Knowledge of Good and Evil symbolizes the sexual love of Eve.  The
 fact that Eve ate the fruit which Satan persuaded her to eat means that
 she committed fornication with Satan.  Since eating something means to
 make it a part of our flesh and blood, Eve's giving Adam the fruit of
 good and evil and his eating it means that Eve caused Adam to fall
 through this same act of illicit love.

 Therefore, the root of sin is not the first human ancestors' eating a
 literal fruit, but their establishing a blood relationship through
 fornication with the archangel, who was symbolized by the serpent, This
 blood relationship is the cause for the Original Sin's being passed on
 from generation to generation.  All religions which try to remove sin
 have branded and treated adultery as one of the greatest sins.  Based on
 this view of Original Sin, we can understand why the Israelites had to
 be circumcised to be considered God's chosen people. It was required in
 order to make restitution for the misuse of the sexual parts, by which
 man had become Satan's descendants.  We may be able to put a stop to all
 other sins through social, educational, or economic improvements, but
 even though civilization develops and social and economic conditions
 improve to the point where we can enjoy a more stable life, the increase
 of sexual promiscuity and of man;s inclination toward moral degradation
 cannot be stopped by anyone.

 The reason that Satan is able to break down the proper order of man;s
 love as the Last Days approach is because the first ancestors became
 husband and wife without the permission or blessing of God and united
 with Satan an their false father.  Their children where thus born as
 children of sin, and not of God, and they established a world of
 faithlessness, evil, and war.  Consequently, Satan has dominated man as
 he has seen fit (Jn 8:44).

 Despite the fact that God created man and the cosmos, He has never been
 able to have the central role in any of the world's affairs--to rule
 according to his Will alone.  Man cast Satan in the starring role, and
 Satan has been falsely playing the part of the lord.  It is for this
 reason that Satan is referred to as "the ruler of this world" (Jn 12:31)
 and "the god of this world" (2 Cor 4:4).

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Date       04-06-92 18:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Nature of God

 AS> There is no coincidence at all.  Had the "coincidence" not
 AS> existed, no one would have been born here, and you would either
 AS> not have been born at all, or you would have been born on that
 AS> 0.0001% of inhabitable planets (and been
 AS> amazed at the (falsely seeming) improbability of it there, too).

 AS> Only if you don't understand the situation properly.  As I said
 AS> above, you wouldn't (couldn't) have been born in a place where
 AS> conditions weren't compatible with life.

 Ok, so I give up.  There is no logical rational proof that can convince
 anyoue that our creation was more than an accident.  You have only one
 avenue remaining to find God.  You will have to try prayer.  If there is
 a Creator then maybe it is possible to communicate with him/her/it.  I
 have done it and gotten responses.  Maybe you can too?

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Date       04-06-92 18:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Why Not

 AS> TB> I agree, but logic and intelligence is usually limited to
 AS> making a TB> selection from among the standards and
 AS> opportunities that are within TB> the scope of one's knowledge.
 AS>
 AS> But why stop at that?  We should be constantly reviewing our
 AS> decisions, and making amendments when necessary.  Why don't we?

 Because it takes too much effort to think deeply and readjust our
 position and sometimes admit we have made erroneous dicisions and
 reached false conclusions.   In the market place supply and demand
 determine the price. Take the price of labor and a quick analysis will
 quickly verify that labor of the mind pays many times a higher wage than
 does labor of the back.  ( So why am I breaking my back moving furniture
 for a living?)  So thinkers are more in demand because people rather
 work than think.  Why do people obvously choose to do physical, manual,
 labor than to think?

 AS> Because we want to believe
 AS> that what we have already chosen is correct, and relax.

 That's part of it, but we both admit that most people as well as
 ourselves relax anyway even when we know we haven't chosen the best/
 most correct course.  It is called slowth in the Bible.

 TB> The question becomes: How can we
 TB> "stretch" our intelligence and logic to see patterns,
 TB>  solutions, and standards when they become available.

 AS> We have to develop our our "far-sightedness," IMHO.  This way we
 AS> can see the possibilities for happiness and pleasure in what is now
 AS> only an imagined future.

 How did you learn to do that?    Why don't other people?  How can they
 be taught this quality?

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Date       04-07-92 09:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject      GOOD NEWS!

 PM>     How do you feel about the seventh-day sabbath of God?

 There is no Sabbath for God. The world is going to hell and God is
 suffering.  Evil people don't take a day off.  On the Sabbath we should
 work harder and more intense than the other days.  The goal is to
 establish the kingdom of God on earth then every day will be the
 Sabbath.

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Date       04-07-92 09:11:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Brian Henderson
Subject    Nature of God

 BH> Ok, fine.  Let's build a machine to whirl the ball.  There is no
 BH> intelligence involved in the whirling then, is there?

 Sure is. I never saw a ball whirling machine materialize out of
 nothing.  Now if I did, now THAT would be a miracle.

 TB> I only brought to focus the position of the earth because it was
     rotating in that tiny zone of infinity that supported water in its
     liquid state. The fact that there is natural, physical laws in the
     universe is even more evidence of a creator.   Who made those laws?
     Did you?


 BH> No.  Did your deity?  How about Buddha?  How about Ahura Mazda?
 BH> Krishna? Why did anyone have to make them?

 I suppose the laws of physics and matter could have always existed.  If
 you really want to find out if there is a God you will probably have to
 learn to talk to Him/Her.  I have communicated with God and on some
 occasions He has communicated with me.  If I can do it, you probably
 can too.  I don't think I'm endowed by any special gift that makes me
 superior to anyone.  Maybe I just looked through the right end of the
 telescope?  Have you tried looking from both ends?

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Date       04-07-92 09:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Not all sorrow and misery

 PM>     It has been published in 117 languages.  Not many books
 PM> have!     Ask me for a copy, or any Seventh-day Adventist you
 PM> may know.

 Humm, I didn't know you were a Seventh-day Adventist.  Where's the beef?
 My knowledge of your faith is almost limited to the one quirk about
 going to church on Saturday like the Jw's and the Jews. (Maybe quirk is
 not the best choice of words?)  Is there any other striking variations
 to distinguish your faith from the rest of the pack?

 We have a Sabbath day service on Sunday because we consider it the first
 day of the week. Rev. Moon is big on offering the first of everything to
 God. The concept of giving God the leftovers is really against the
 teachings of the Divine Principle.  January 1 st is the biggest day
 because that is God's day.  God gets the first day of the year.  We also
 have a special service at 5 am. on the first day of ever week, every
 month, and of course the first day of every year.

 Do you consider Saturday the first day of the week?

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Date       04-07-92 11:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Do not all religions foll

 CR> 4.The theme of Jesus' preaching was the Kingdom of God, and he
 CR> sent his disciple
 CR> out to talk personally to others about it; but the churches
 CR> today seldom mention that Kingdom...

 Amen !  This is one place we absolutely have no disagreement.

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Date       04-07-92 11:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      GOOD NEWS!

 CR> Since when is neutrality, being rebellious?
 CR> Jesus made it clear that his disciple's seperateness from the
 CR> world would be an outstanding characteristic. "They are no part
 CR> of the world," he said. (John 17:16; 15:19)  Only a fool would
 CR> support the political system of this world knowing that Satan is
 CR> the ruler of it. (1 John 5:19; John 12:31; 2 Corinthians 4:4)

 Neutrality does not bring out and support the goodness.  All that is
 necessary for evil to flourish is the neutrality of good people.  I
 really don't think Jw's are neutral.  They oppose many traditions and
 support others.  Why can't they do the same when dealing with the
 government?  Seems if good people don't support good ideas in the
 government then the bad ones will be implemented.   Do you think the
 government will accidentally do the right thing without any
 encouragement?


 CR> > Also the rejection of celebrating holidays
 CR> >  and birthdays was a mistake.  Not every celebration concludes
 CR> > with a drunken orgy.

 CR> This is not the main reason why Jehovah's Witnesses do not
 CR> celebrate holidays.. Why would any true Christian want to
 CR> celebrate holidays  that have PAGAN origin?

 It is called restoration.  The purpose of the coming of Christ is to
 make ALL things new.  Don't you believe that the followers of Christ
 have the power to restore a pagan celebration?  You need more faith in
 your ability to digest evil and corruption.  If you don't feel you can
 restore a birthday, then how could you ever have confidence to restore
 conjugal love?

 CR> Easter is saturated with pagan rites and
 CR> customs. The New Encyclopedia  Britannica, says: "As at
 CR> Christmas, so also at Easter, popular customs  reflect many
 CR> ancient pagan survivals, in this instance, connected  with
 CR> spring fertility rites, such as the symbols of the Easter egg
 CR> and the Easter hare or rabbit."

 So tell Buggs Bunny to hit the road and separate the wheat from the
 chaff.  A classic example of a category blunder.  You seem to have
 overlooked that our God is also a god of fertility:  Gen 1:28 ... and
 MULTIPLY !

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Date       04-07-92 11:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      GOOD NEWS!

 CR> So Terry, you may celebrate holidays that are saturated with
 CR> paganism, but as for Jehovah's Witnesses that remain "no part of
 CR> this world."


 Rev. Moon has restored 4 major holidays.
 God's day, Jan. 1 st., established 1968,
 Parents Day, April 15, established 1960,
 Day of all Things, June 12 th, established 1963,
 Children's Day, Nov. 6 th, established 1960.

 Also there are minor holidays he has restored like The day of the
 Victory of Love, Jan 2. established 1984, Foundation Day, Sept. 18,
 established 1976,

 TB> ...on transfusions.

 CR> Laugh as he may, we will get the LAST laugh when he's destroyed!

 Letting a child die because of an category blunder over one scripture
 that vaguely eludes to eating blood, then twisting that to say that a
 transfusion is a form of eating that they were talking about 3 or 4
 thousand years ago when the concept of transfusions was unheard of is
 ludicrous to any rational mind.  When you allow the transplant of organs
 you don't have a method to drain every drop of blood, neither do you get
 all the blood out of a steak you eat.

 CR> The Bible tells us to "abstain from blood." And that is exactly
 CR> what we do. This is no petty issue. You can either obey God's
 CR> laws or disobey them, Jehovah' Witnesses prefer to obey them.

 It is too a most petty issue which doesn't even deserve the time both of
 us are wasting with it.  Case closed.

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Date       04-07-92 11:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject     Moon

 CR> What about animals? Did God also give female animals the ability
 CR> to create an eternal spirit?  I ask this because Ecclesiates
 CR> 3:19- 21 tells us that human have NO superiority over beasts at
 CR> death.

 Nope, Animals are not in the image of God.  Glad we finally got that
 settled.

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Date       04-07-92 11:47:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    Moon (1 of 3)

 TB>> The consequences of being wrong can work both ways, don't you
      think? If Rev. Moon is a man of God then failing to support him
      also carries "consequences." <<

 GS> That's exactly why hard evidence rather than subjective opinion
 GS> is mandatory. I don't want my eternal state on what might be the
 GS> case. I want to be certain.

 JOH 10:24   Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How
 long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not:

 LUK 17:20    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom
 of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh
 not with observation:
 LUK 17:37   And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he
 said unto them, Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be
 gathered together.  And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that
 men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Prayer has yielded the "hard evidence" that I have based my conclusion
 upon.  You can talk to God about this just as I did.  This is the same
 advice that Jesus gave. It still holds true.

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Date       04-07-92 11:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    Moon (2 of 3)

 GS> I really do not know much about Moon's moral character and, even
 GS> if I had a lot of dirt on him, it would not be my place to judge
 GS> the man. I know the news media is always coming down on him but
 GS> they are hardly in a position to be throwing stones at anyone.
 GS> However, even if we assume that he is one of the nicest guys to
 GS> ever walk the planet, that doesn't make him correct any more
 GS> than it makes him wrong.

 MAT 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
 thorns, or figs of thistles? MAT 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye
 shall know them.

 GS> I certainly have nothing against prayer. My rule (I'm a member
 GS> of the Secular Franciscan Order) directs me to pray even if I
 GS> were not already inclined to do so. But prayer, by itself, is no
 GS> guarantee that you will be led to the truth.

 You may be correct, but you do know that finding truth does not normally
 happen by accident.  Remember, 7 days without prayer makes one weak.


 GS> that as of 1980 there were more than 20,000 different Chris-tian
 GS> denominations. Each one of those denominations have people who
 GS> pray and are as convinced that they have found the truth as you
 GS> and I are. The problem is that our will gets in the way too
 GS> easily. When asked why they did so, the majority of people
 GS> (those who were questioned anyway) who left the Roman Catholic
 GS> Church for fundamentalist groups did so because the people were
 GS> friendly rather than being convinced concerning matters of
 GS> dogma.

 Yes, we must remember that at the fall, mankind lost more than truth
 (dogma) he also lost true love.  In order to be restored, a person must
 not only find truth, but also true love.  Rev. Moon's power does not
 come only from the truth he has discovered and taught, but also from the
 love he has been able to embody.  Some groups have a high level of
 truth, but they are lacking in love and compassion.  Other groups have a
 higher level of love, but they are lacking in knowledge and wisdom. When
 God establishes a couple on earth that can give truth and true parental
 love to fallen man, that couple will be the center of unification for
 God and all mankind.  People will resist but sooner or later something
 will happen that will give them a window to realize this truth or this
 love or both, and they will change.  The question is: do we want to seek
 out this central point of true love and race to get there quickly and
 reach the heart of God, and comfort God, or do we want to hold back and
 try to keep connections to both worlds.  When it becomes clear to a
 person that they should go the way of true love, the first thing they
 want to do is go out and have a final fling.  Look at all the Madi Grass
 type celebration before Lent.  Everyone seems to say: "Sure, I'll go the
 right way, but let me first go cut my self just one more time... I'll
 get over it."

 LUK 9:60    Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go
 thou and preach the kingdom of God.

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Date       04-07-92 12:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    Moon (3 of 3)

 GS> Sysop>> One thing I would suggest is that you try to read the
 GS> entire Divine Principle and step back and look for the big
 GS> picture.  I have been explaining it to a user on this
 GS> conference, Walter Copes, for over a year and he has never been
 GS> able to restrain from focusing on the pieces. <<

 GS> While the big picture is important, we must also remember that
 GS> the whole is the sum of its parts. Both need to be carefully
 GS> evaluated.

 Well, I tend to generally agree, but if you tried to determine what
 makes a human by examining the contents of the large intestine you could
 easily arrive at a very misleading conclusion.

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Date       04-07-92 12:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject    Which Religion is Right?

 CR> How can a person know which religion is right?

 Pick the one that is following the Messiah.  This religion will be one
 that has mass weddings for fallen people to come into God's lineage
 through adoption into the True Parents family.  Oh Yes,  this religion
 will be lead by someone ( as the scripture says ) who comes from the
 east who came into the world (as the Jws teach) around 1914, and then
 (as Mormons teach) came to America to spend most of his effort (as the
 Pentecostals teach ) to restore the new Jerusalem.

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Date       04-07-92 12:34:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Gary Sibio
Subject    Who's Saving Who(m?)

 GS> Other than the fact that I will not speak of myself as "saved"
 GS> because I don't think we can be completely saved until we are
 GS> dead...

 Where did the concept of salvation after and only after death come from?
 I'm not attacking, but I was brought up with the teaching that one must
 die to attain salvation, yet I never heard Jesus put it that way.

 Is there something inherent within the physical body that can never be
 overcome that keeps up separated from God?   Has the physical body that
 God created become a stumbling block that prevented living humans from
 being one with God and prevented God from dwelling among men?  Must
 humans sin. Is sin a requirement to be human?

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Date       04-07-92 21:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject    Dates I'll be gone

 PM>     Will spend a couple days in Sarasota, FL.    phil.phm

 Hey, drop in and visit Rev. Ralph Stokes of the King James Chruch.  He
 is somewhere down that way.

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Date       04-07-92 21:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Your reaching but co com

 PM> TB> ...  While you are mouthing off spewing your hate and
 PM> contempt - - -
 PM>     Tell me, Terry, does this sound anyplace near Christ-ike?

 Even Christ had to respond relative to the people who were harassing
 him.  This C. Spurgon dude has slandered Rev. Moon to the point of
 loosing access to my bbs and the users who come here to pick up their
 mail. Accidents do happen. <grin>  Especially to the wicked!

 PM> TB> ...  Rev. Moon spent almost 1 billion dollars in America
 PM> TB>     to save this nation.  You are extremely indebted to him.
 PM> .
 PM>     Strange...  I hadn't heard about a penny of it.

 Hey !  I'm here to educate.  Now you know.  Let me share something else
 with you:

 By: Rev. Sun Myung Moon

 When I declared that I would go to Moscow, I meant it.  When they hear
 me say, "Moscow is our goal," the communists will laugh.  "How can you?"
 All right, they can laugh.  Twenty years ago in Korea, in a small room
 only big enough for two or three people, with a roof that leaked, I
 talked about world unification. Twenty years ago in that small room,
 everybody thought those were crazy ideas.

 Today, compared to the size of the communists' power, the New Yorker
 Hotel is like that small cubbyhole of 20 years ago. We have only a
 handful of people, yet we are talking about the liberation of the
 communists; we are talking about Moscow.  I am sure most people laugh.
 Let them laugh now.  I know one thing: in the communist world the
 children of the communist leaders ore on the side of God. The next
 generation in the Soviet Union will be on my side.  Feb. 23, 1977

 And they are.  Both me and my wife have already participated with
 seminars in the former Soviet Union that have educated thousands of
 students about the content of the Divine Principle. America is declining
 rapidly and loosing God's blessing specifically because of clowns like
 this C. Spurgen guy.  If you and other righteous people don't straighten
 him out and teach him some manners this country won't be fit for our
 children. God will withdraw from this nation, and like the man who
 buried his talents lost them to the other man who multiplied his, our
 blessing will be given to another nation.  This is serious stuff and
 you have to know it.

 MAT 11:19   The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say,
 Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and
 sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. Then began he to
 upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because
 they repented not:

 Most of Rev. Moon's ministry has been in America, yet the people still
 repented not.  Now our cities are clearly becoming upbraided.

 LUK 17:26   And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the
 days of the Son of man.  They did eat, they drank, they married wives,
 they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the
 ark, and the flood came, and DESTROYED THEM ALL. Likewise also as it was
 in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold,
 they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom
 it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and DESTROYED [THEM] ALL.
 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 So are you ready to go the way of destruction and see your children
 destroyed because of the stupidity of people like this C. Spurgen guy?
 I sure am not!   He better get his act together.

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Date       04-08-92 09:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ralph Stokes
Subject    Rightly Dividing

 RS> Yes, I get it, but when you stand before God Almighty, you won't
 RS> be so light in your replies.

 There is no such event as standing before God Almighty and making
 replies.  Your God may not have known what you did while on earth, but
 mine will.   So there won't be any questions for me to answer.  If they
 are any questions, I'll know whose God I'm talking to and I'll remind
 them that I'm not Ralph Stokes.

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Date       04-08-92 09:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject      GOOD NEWS!

 First,  I wanted to mention that your editor seems to be adding ascii
 #141 characters, like Wordstar does, to the end of every line.  This
 causes every line you write to be followed by a blank line.  Maybe you
 can get your husband to help you figure out how to turn it off.  If you
 write a 50 line message, we get it in 100 lines.  It really makes
 reading it difficult because the line wrap then adds even more
 confusion.

 CR> Our being born was no injustice on God's part. He endowed the first
     human couple with perfection and gave them Paradise as their home.

 Had Adam and Eve been perfect they would not have chosen to disobey God.
 God created Adam and Eve sinless, but unlike the rest of the creation,
 they had the responsibility and opportunity to participate in their own
 perfection through obedience to God's word.

 CR> After creating Adam and Eve he gave them an assignment to fulfill.

 Yes, and through the fulfillment of this assignment (portion of
 responsibility) they could have grown to perfection.  This is why Jesus
 said: "Ye therefore must be perfect."

 CR> He made it clear that his purpose was not  only to subdue all the
     earth, thus extending the boundaries of Paradise,  but to populate
     it with descendants of the first man and woman.

 You are on the right track.  But, when we read about God's instructions
 to populate and subdue the earth, we must not overlook the first of
 these three instructions which say "become fruitful."   To become
 fruitful must be done before these other instructions are carried out.
 Becoming fruitful means to mature.  Had Adam and Eve matured in
 accordance with God's word they could have then established a God
 centered human race, giving God grandchildren.  It is obvious, at least
 to me,  that when God said multiply, He was not suggesting that Adam and
 Eve go and have children of the devil, yet when we read John 8:40 ff. we
 see that Jesus claimed that is exactly what they did.

 CR>  When Jehovah's punishment was executed his purpose to populate the
     earth was'nt thwarted. But it did mean that for a time sinful people
     have been allowed to live. Hard to swallow?

 First, I don't buy the theory that God punished anyone.  When people
 violate spiritual, heavenly law they suffer the consequences.  If your
 child was on top of your house and you told them not to jump off or they
 would get hurt, but they did it anyway, the pain, bruises, and maybe
 broken bones would not be you way of punishing them for disobeying them,
 the suffering they would experience is the CONSEQUENCE of violating
 physical law.  Again, if your child did such a thing, in order to come
 back to their original state of health they would have to go the course
 of indemnity.  Indemnity is not punishment either.  Indemnity is the way
 back, and in the course of healing a broken bone, it would require a
 person to be temporarily handicapped.  Fallen man has been living in a
 handicapped situation since the fall.  The way of restoration is
 through indemnity.  We have to pay off that debt we have inherited.
 Christianity thinks that Jesus paid the debt, but actually murdering him
 piled up more debt that fallen man will have to pay off before we can be
 restored back to God.

 Sinful people have been allowed to live because destroying them would
 destroy God's hope for the realization of His ideal.

 CS> Lets take the example of what God said to the ruler of Egypt
     Pharoah, and then maybe we can understand why God has allowed the
     wicked to continue for a time.

 Talking about something "hard to swallow," the reality is that there
 isn't much God can do about the evil those who are made in His image are
 doing. If God "muscled" in then He would be taking away our freedom. God
 can't give us freedom and then take it back and expect a relationship of
 love to exist between Himself and His slaves.  If God is indeed all
 powerful and good, then there is no way that evil could exist.  Either
 God is not so good or His power has been limited. God's power is limited
 in the area of fulfilling man's portion of responsibility. God cannot
 intervene and fulfill your responsibility for you.

 CR> It demonstrated that because of his almighty power nothing can block
     his purpose. And nothing will. And because of his mercy and patience
     he has given man MORE THAN ENOUGH time to repent and submit
     themselves to him as universal Sovereign.

 Every time we fail to fulfill our portion of responsibility, God's
 purpose and will is blocked.  God's will is that none should perish but
 that ALL should come to repentance.  God's will was for the people to
 believe that Jesus was the Christ and to follow him.  But everyone lost
 faith and most never had any.

 LUK 13:34   O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and
 stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered
 thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her]
 wings, and ye would not!

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Date       04-08-92 10:06:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Schucker
Subject     Why Not

 JS> what do you mean vertical bar "love the lord thy god ....."
 JS> horizontal bar "love thy nighbor ...."  i can't quite get the
 JS> significance out of that,

 In the process of restoration, there are two conditions that must be
 established and fulfilled.  First is a foundation of faith, second is
 the foundation of substance.  Faith is the vertical relationship to God
 while Substance is the horizontal relationship to other people.  Jesus
 taught this by saying if you love God (vertical) and love your neighbor
 (horizontal) you will automatically fulfill the Law of Moses.

 What are the indemnity conditions needed to establish the Foundation for
 the Messiah? Since indemnity conditions must reverse the process by
 which Adam lost his original position and state, in order to answer this
 question we must understand by what process Adam fell--what it is that
 he did and did not do that left the Purpose of the Creation unfulfilled.

 Because Adam and Eve did not believe God's Work, they could not
 establish the Foundation of Faith and they fell. in order to receive the
 Messiah, fallen man must first restore the Foundation of Faith by
 indemnifying this failure to believe in God's Word.

 After establishing the Foundation of Faith, fallen man must then
 restore, through indemnity, the Foundation of Substance.  Let us examine
 the reasons that this foundation has to be made.  If Adam and Eve had
 established the Foundation of Faith, they would have become perfect
 incarnations of God's Word.  In other words, they would have developed
 the character of perfected individuals.  This perfect incarnation is the
 ultimate goal in the creation of man.  Faith in God's commandment 'not
 to eat' was necessary for Adam and Eve only until they reached
 perfection.  God's wish was for them to become beings embodying his
 character and resembling him.  When this took place they would have been
 able rightfully to have dominion over all of the cosmos, including the
 archangel,  But because Adam and Eve did not base their life on an
 attitude of faith, they lost the basis by which they could embody God''s
 character and resemble him, and instead they came to be dominated by the
 archangel, who was to have been the servant of God and man.  Thus, the
 Foundation for the Messiah which fallen man must establish requires
 establishing through indemnity the Foundation of Faith and the
 Foundation of Substance.

                         The Foundation of Faith

 First, what are the indemnity conditions that must be met in order to
 establish the Foundation of Faith?  To know what they are, we must
 understand what Adam and Eve failed to do.  Adam and Eve failed to
 establish this foundation as a result of their not having absolute faith
 in God's commandment during their growing period.

 To indemnify this failure, first of all there must be a central person
 who can stand in Adam's position and restore the Foundation of Faith.
 Secondly, to indemnify and restore Adam's and Eve's failure to keep
 God's commandment, the central person must make the required offering
 with absolute faith.  Thirdly, Adam and Eve did not go through the
 growing period in accordance with God's Will, thus failing to meet the
 condition of demonstrating faith.  In other words, they did not properly
 go through the period in which they were to carry out their
 responsibility--by living in accordance with God's Will.  As a result, a
 numerically determined indemnity time-period became necessary to restore
 the misused growing period.  This period is called the mathematical
 period of indemnity.

 The Foundation of Faith is the absolute vertical relationship that man
 must establish with God.  Since man's vertical relationship with God was
 severed by the first man's and woman's faithlessness toward God, the
 condition required to indemnify and restore this is called the
 Foundation of Faith.  The reason that throughout history great men of
 God such as Abel, Noah, Abraham, and Isaac were required to demonstrate
 tremendous faith was because they were the individuals responsible to
 restore through indemnity the Foundation of Faith.

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Date       04-08-92 10:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Schucker
Subject     Why Not

 JS> what do you mean vertical bar "love the lord thy god ....."
 JS> horizontal bar "love thy nighbor ...."  i can't quite get the
 JS> significance out of that,

                       The Foundation of Substance

 Let us now consider what indemnity is required to restore the Foundation
 of Substance.  If, on the basis of their Foundation of Faith, Adam and
 Eve had perfected themselves as true children of God, they would have
 been the perfect incarnations of God's Word and the incarnations of the
 character of the invisible God.  Had this happened, man would have had
 dominion over all things, including the archangel, thereby fulfilling
 God's Third Blessing.  A Principle relationship would have been
 established between man and all things, including the angels.

 However, Adam and Eve never established a Foundation of Faith, and
 consequently, did not establish the Foundation of Substance either.
 Instead, Adam and Eve were defiled by Fallen Nature and ended up being
 dominated by the archangel.

 To establish the Foundation of Substance, fallen man must meet the
 Indemnity Condition for Removing the Fallen Nature and restore the
 proper horizontal order, which was disrupted.  This is done by reversing
 the process through which man acquired the Fallen Nature.

 Specifically, what is it that has to be done to remove the Fallen
 Nature?  The first factor in the process of the fall of the archangel
 lay in the archangel's failure to love Adam, who was receiving more love
 from God.  Fallen man inherited this fallen nature of 'not taking the
 same viewpoint as God'.  To remove this fallen nature, a person in the
 position of the archangel must love a person in Adam's position, thereby
 taking the same viewpoint as God.

 The second factor in the process of the fall of the archangel was his
 not wanting to receive God's love through Adam who was closer to God.
 Instead, the archangel attempted to take Adam's position, and he fell,
 giving rise to the fallen nature of 'leaving one's position'.  To remove
 this fallen nature, a person in the archangel's position must receive
 God's love through the person in Adam's position, thus keeping his
 proper position.

 The third factor in the process of the Fall was the archangel's
 dominating Adam and Eve instead of allowing himself to be governed by
 them.  From this came the fallen nature of 'reversing the order of
 dominion'.  To remove this fallen nature, a person in the archangel's
 position should be obedient to and submit to a person in Adam's
 position, thereby establishing the proper order of dominion.

 The will of goodness not to eat of the Fruit of the Tree of the
 Knowledge of Good and Evil should have been received from God by Adam,
 from Adam by Eve, and from Eve by the archangel, thus multiplying
 goodness.  However, instead of goodness being multiplied, Eve accepted
 from the archangel that she could eat the Fruit of the Tree of the
 Knowledge of Good and Evil, and Adam accepted that direction from Eve,
 thus multiplying the will for evil and causing them to fall.  Thus, the
 final aspect of the Fallen Nature was created--the nature of
 'multiplying sin'.  To remove this fallen nature of multiplying sin, a
 person in the archangel's position must receive the righteous will from
 a person in Adam's position, restoring the nature that multiplies the
 will of goodness.

 When all these conditions are met, the Indemnity Condition for Removing
 the Fallen Nature is met, and this constitutes the Foundation of
 Substance.  The Foundation for the Messiah is made by restoring through
 indemnity the Foundation of Faith and the Foundation of Substance.  It
 is only on this foundation that fallen man can receive the Messiah.

 From the foregoing, we can understand that the history of mankind is the
 dispensational history in which God leads man to prepare himself to
 receive the Messiah by inducing man to fulfill his responsibility. When
 man finishes this preparation, God will send the Messiah and conclude
 his Dispensation for Restoration.

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Date       04-08-92 18:46:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Cribbs
Subject     Ransom

 BC> Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.   You can't
 BC> logically figure out God, Carla.   Read 1 Cor. 2:9-16.   But
 BC> then again, JW's reject the Holy Spirit of God as being a living
 BC> Person, so how can I expect you to discern a spiritual matter.

 Carla in on the right track to seek unity between faith and reason.
 Jesus said this time would come when people would reconcile logic and
 spiritual matters and that is the kind of worshiper the Father wants:

 JOH 4:23    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
 shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh
 such to worship him.

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Date       04-08-92 21:35:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Steven Headley
Subject    QUALIFICATION TO BE BE H

 SH>   Gee, there might be a glimmer of light here for you.  The
 SH> point that   I made is that WE cannot have children without
 SH> original sin.  We can   do nothing about it except give it all
 SH> up to God.  He can make new   creations out of us all - without
 SH> the stain of sin on us.

 Will your children need to be born again?

 SH>   The problem has been solved.  You either ignore the solution,
 SH> or wish   that it was a different soultion.

 So why aren't we living in an ideal world?  Even two people who both
 love God can't seem to get along very well. I'm not satisfied with the
 current solution whatever it is.  I have found a new one.

 SH> TB> Do you have even one example where God did anything to bring
 SH> about man's
 SH> TB> restoration that did NOT involve man's cooperation?  There
 SH> is a lot we TB> can do.  Have you read the Bible?  Look for the
 SH> places where God gives TB> man commandments and you can "key in"
 SH> on many things you can do.

 SH>   Sure there is Terry - God sent His son.  Man's restoration,
 SH> through   the grace of God is available to us.  We had nothing
 SH> to do in the   causations for this being avaible to us.

 So we don't even have to believe in Jesus, and take up our cross and
 follow him?  I think you should read the question again.  There is
 nothing God or Christ can do if we misuse our freedom and reject and
 disobey.

 SH> TB> MAT 5:48    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father
 SH> which is in TB> heaven is perfect.
 SH>
 SH>   Trying to get to heaven by being perfect??

 Are you trying to get to heaven by being IMPERFECT ?

 SH> TB> Has God solved the problem of the procreation of children
 SH> with original TB> sin?  The problem still exists.

 SH>    A problem with a solution is no longer a problem, Terry.

 Do you know the solution?  Have you any sinless children?

 SH> TB> Rebirth is only necessary because someone wasn't born right
 SH> TB> the first time.  Be real and admit it; if we were to examine
 SH> the TB> procreation of children like the production of something
 SH> like an TB> inner tube for a tire, every child that has been
 SH> produced by fallen man TB> has required a patch.
 SH>
 SH>    Being that the "patch" is the everlasting love of God, by
 SH> sending    His son to die for our sins, I can deal with the
 SH> patch.  Apparently    you cannot.

 That is exactly right. Since Jesus Christ has shown a better way through
 his revelation to Rev. Sun Myung Moon we no longer have to patch up
 something that is created in a deformed state.  The opportunity is now
 open to procreate children in God's lineage who have no need for
 rebirth.

 SH> TB> That is not the way God intended us to be.  When
 SH> TB> God told Adam and Eve to "multiply" he first said to be
 SH> fruitful.  This TB> means to mature.
 SH>
 SH>   Your interpretation, but one that is not supported by the
 SH> scriptures.

 Yes it is.  2000 years ago Jesus said: "The time will come when I will
 tell you plainly of the Father."   And you know that God never wanted
 Adam and Eve to fall or it would have not grieved Him.

 SH>   I take responsibility for my actions, Terry.  The problem is
 SH> that   when I sin, I sin against a holy God.  It is He who
 SH> determines the   restoration method - not me.  (And there are
 SH> all sorts of studies to   prove this, including some really
 SH> awesome connotation in word   studies.)  It is only by God's
 SH> enormous grace that I am saved Terry -   not by anything that I
 SH> do.  (Ephesians 2:8,9)

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
 exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no
 case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 SH>   That's right - we have to be converted.  And who does the
 SH>   converting??? Us???  Or God??

 God is not going to take responsibility for your salvation and ignore
 mine. If He did then He would not be a Just God.  If salvation were up
 to God we could all just go get drunk, party hardy, dance naked and
 fornicate, and then blame God when we end up in the bottomless pits of
 hell.

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Date       04-09-92 00:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Keith Suggs
Subject    The Trinity

 KS> Welcome to the echo!  By the way, don't take Carla too
 KS> seriously.  She operates
 KS> from the perspective that the Trinity as described in Scripture
 KS> does not exist,
 KS> based upon a pamphlet that is distributed by the WatchTower
 KS> Bible and Tract Society.

 AND based on some common sense.

 AND based on at least 20 scriptures that show Jesus was talking to
 someone else or scitzophrenic.

 AND based on the way you guys described it to her...  at least she
 remembered that there is only one God with a big "G" and she has a
 chance of escaping the wrath of hell for violating the only sin worse
 than fornication.... POLYTHEISM !

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Date       04-09-92 09:45:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND> so do we. Animals have always been ordaned as one of man's food
 ND> sources and therefore present no need to have immortal bodies.
 ND> Their makeup is different.

 I think the physical body of humans and animals is very similar. Humans
 have even been able to receive organ (kindey) transplants from monkeys
 that enabled them to continue to live.

 ND>      What does Rev. Moon teach about the "trinity" beliefs that
 ND> so many churche believe?

                               Christology

 What sort of person is Jesus?  What is the relationship between Jesus
 and God?  What is the relationship between Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
 What is the relationship between Jesus and fallen man?  What do trinity
 and rebirth mean?

 Christology deals with these questions.  In order to answer them, we
 must begin by understanding the value of an original, true, person. The
 reason for this is that if Adam and Eve had perfected themselves and had
 become true human beings, true husband and wife, and true parents,
 giving birth to descendants who were the embodiments of goodness, there
 would have been no reason for the Messiah (and thus no Christological
 discussions).

 From the following viewpoints, let us discuss the value of a person who
 fulfills the Purpose of the Creation, that is of one who attains the
 value of the perfect Adam.

 First of all, what is the value of this perfect person in relation to
 God?  According to "The Principles of the Creation", man is created as
 the child of God, as the object that substantially resembles the
 invisible God.  When a person fulfills the Purpose of the Creation, he
 becomes God's body, a being in which the spirit of God dwells (1 Cor
 3:16).  Naturally he has a divine nature and is one in heart with God.
 He is a true person, one who is perfect as his Heavenly Father is
 perfect, as Jesus said (Mt 5:48).  Thus, a true person is one who is the
 visible embodiment of God, is God's true son or daughter, has a divine
 nature, and fulfills the Purpose of the Creation.

 Secondly, what is the value of a perfect person in relation to other
 people?  According to "The Principles of Creation", God's purpose in
 creating man is for God to enjoy happiness through him.  Therefore, each
 person is an object substantially resembling the characteristics within
 God, the subject.  Since all human beings resemble the universal aspects
 of God, all persons share a common nature.  However, each individual
 also resembles certain unique characteristics within God.  Thus, no two
 individuals are the same.  If God created, anywhere in his entire
 Creation, two or more individuals whose characteristics were exactly
 alike, then God's own Creation would be wasteful.  Since man is created
 to be eternal, God's desire to experience stimulating joy through a
 certain individual is sufficiently satisfied through that one
 individual.  Therefore, a person who fulfills the Purpose of the
 Creation, is a unique individual who will never be duplicated throughout
 eternity, so he has an innate unique value, which cannot be denied.

 Thirdly, what is the value of a perfect person in relation to the rest
 of the Creation?  According to "The Principles of the Creation", man was
 recreated to rule the invisible spirit world by means of his spirit self
 and the physical world by means of his physical self.  Man then
 functions as the medium through which these two worlds interact.

 A person who fulfills the Purpose of Creation is to rule the entire
 cosmos (Gen 1:28).

 Man's spirit self is to be the microcosm of the entire spirit world and
 his physical self is to be the microcosm of the entire physical world. A
 true human being, one who fulfills the Purpose of the Creation, is the
 microcosm of the entire cosmos.  Man is a microcosm (of the Creation)
 and has the value of the cosmos.  The fact that man is originally of
 such cosmic value underlies Jesus saying "'For what will it profit a man
 if he gains the whole world and forfeits his life?"' (Mt 16:26).

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Date       04-09-92 09:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND>      What does Rev. Moon teach about the "trinity" beliefs that

                     Jesus and the Perfect Person

      If Adam had become the first man who fulfilled the Ideal for the
 Creation, he would have become the very Tree of Life referred to in
 Genesis 2:9, and thus, all of his descendants would have become trees of
 life.  However, because Adam fell, he could not realize the ideal of the
 Tree of Life (Gen. 3:24), and ever since, fallen people have hoped to
 restore themselves and become trees of life (Prov 13:12, Rev 22:14).
     Though fallen man has the "name of being alive", he is, in reality,
 a false tree of life and dead (Rev 3:1).  Since fallen people cannot
 restore themselves as trees of life by their own power, a Tree of Life
 -- in other words a man who has fulfilled the Ideal for the Creation - -
 must come and graft fallen man to him.  The man who comes as the Tree of
 Life is Christ (Rev 22:14).  Therefore, perfected Adam, symbolized by
 the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden, and Jesus, who is likened to the
 Tree of Live in Revelation 22:14, are identical from the standpoint of
 their both being persons who have fulfilled the Ideal for the Creation.
      Then, is Jesus a human being?  Yes, he is. He is an example of a
 person who has fulfilled the Ideal for the Creation; he is a true
 person, an example of man as he was originally created, and as such his
 value is not to be compared with the value of fallen man.
      As already mentioned, a true person is one who fulfills the Purpose
 of the Creation, is the incarnation of God, and is perfect as God is
 perfect, possessing divine value.  A perfect person is also a unique,
 non-duplicable individual who is the lord of the cosmos and has cosmic
 value.  Jesus is a true man, and thus is a person of such value.
      The Principle does not flatly deny the conventional belief held by
 many christians that Jesus is God, because a perfect, true person is one
 with God.  Furthermore, when The Principle asserts that Jesus is a true
 human being, this does not in any way diminish his value.  It is simply
 that when one examines the value of the perfect person, we find it is
 equivalent to the value of Jesus.  In fact, if the first man and woman
 had not fallen and had become a man and a woman of such value, then
 Jesus' coming would not have been necessary.  It would be a grave error,
 indeed, to suppose that the value of fallen man can be compared with
 Jesus' value simply because Jesus was a human being.  He was a true
 human being.  Let us examine the biblical bases for saying this:
      For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and
      men, the man Christ Jesus.  (1 Tim 2:5)
      For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one
      man's obedience many will be made righteous.  (Rom 5:19)
      For as by a man [Adam] came death, by a man [Jesus] has come also
      the resurrection of the dead.  (1 Cor 15:21)
       ... because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in
      righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has
      given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead. (Acts
      17:31)

 These passages indicate that Jesus was a man.  Jesus also referred to
 himself as the Son of man in many places in the Bible (e.g., Lk 17:26,
 18:8).
                              Is Jesus God ?
      Up until now, many Christians have believed that Jesus is God, the
 Creator, based primarily on the following passages from the Bible.
      When Philip asked Jesus to show him God, Jesus replied "'He who has
 seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, "Show us the Father"? Do
 you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me?'" (Jn
 14:9,10).  However, this does not mean that Jesus is God.  As clarified
 above, Jesus was a visible manifestation of the invisible God and is one
 with God in heart; yet, this does not mean that he is God.  Philip asked
 Jesus to show him God.  But God can only be experienced so completely by
 a person who is perfect.  Philip was not yet perfect, and so Jesus had
 no choice but to show only himself.
     Again, the Bible says, "He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world
 was made through him, yet the world knew him not" (Jn 1:10).  Based on
 this passage, Christians have believed that Jesus is the Creator.
     The center of God's Ideal for the Creation is man, and the cosmos is
 so designed and created as to be the domain which each ideal person is
 to rule.  Thus, God established the person who fulfills the Purpose of
 the Creation as the highest ideal.  From the lowest being to the
 highest, God created all of them, and then he finally created Adam as
 lord over all.  Then, Jesus, as a person who was fulfilling the Purpose
 of the Creation, was the ideal person God had envisioned before the
 creation was created.  In this sense, Jesus existed from the beginning.
     Some try to identify Jesus with God on the basis of the quote in
 John 8:58, in which Jesus said, "'... before Abraham was, I am.'"  But
 Jesus didn't mean that he was God.  Rather, Jesus could say this
 because, although on the basis of his genealogy Jesus was a descendant
 of Abraham, in fact he is the ancestor of Abraham because he came to
 give rebirth to all mankind from the position of the perfect Adam, that
 is from the position of a True Parent, a True Ancestor of all mankind.
      If Jesus had been God, then in the spirit world, after his
 resurrection, he would be one and the same with God, rather than in a
 position "next to" God.  However, in the spirit world, Jesus is said to
 be at the right hand of God, interceding for us (Rom 8:34).  Jesus was
 born on earth as the Son of man and had a human external appearance like
 anyone else.  In the spirit world he lives as a spirit person just as
 his disciples do, the only difference being that his spirit self is
 without original sin and shines brilliantly.
      If Jesus were God, how could he intercede with himself?  When he
 prayed, he made it clear that he was not God by calling God Father (Jn
 17:1). If Jesus were God, how could he be tempted (Mt 4:1) and tortured
 and driven to the crucifixion by Satan?  It is especially evident that
 Jesus is not God when, on the cross, he cried out, "'My God, my God, why
 hast thou forsaken me?'" (Mt 27:46).

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Date       04-09-92 09:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND>      What does Rev. Moon teach about the "trinity" beliefs that

                           Jesus and Fallen Man

 A fallen person is not comparable to Jesus.  A fallen person does not
 fulfill the Purpose of the Creation, and is far from the Heart of God.
 What is more, because he has original sin, he is in such a miserably low
 state that he even envies the angles, who were created to be man's
 servants, and he cannot free himself from Satan's accusation.  Thus,
 fallen man is very different from Jesus, who was a perfect, true person.
 However, though Jesus, who as to be the True Father, a fallen person
 will be restored as a spiritual child and will come to resemble Jesus.
 Then Jesus becomes the head of the Church (Eph 1:22), and fallen people
 are his body and members (1 Cor 12:27).  Jesus is the main temple and we
 are the branch temples; Jesus is the vine and we are the branches (Jn
 15:5).  In order to become true olive trees, we as wild olives shoots,
 should be grafted onto Jesus, who is the true olive tree (Rom 11:17).
 Thus Jesus called us his friends, and John said that when Jesus appears,
 we shall be like him (1 Jn 3:2).  The Bible also says that Christ is the
 "first fruits", and we shall be the next (1 Cor 15:23).

                          The Meaning of Rebirth

      Jesus told Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, that unless one is born
 anew, he cannot see the Kingdom of God (Jn 3:3).  Then, why must man be
 reborn?
      If Adam and Eve had fulfilled the Ideal for the Creation and had
 become true human beings, a true couple, and the True Parents, and had
 given birth to true children (without sin), the Kingdom of Heaven on
 earth would have been realized.  However, because of their fall, they
 became false parents, and their descendants have original sin and have
 realized the Kingdom of Hell on earth.  Therefore, fallen persons cannot
 see the Kingdom of God unless they are reborn as heavenly children, free
 of original sin.
      We cannot be born without parents.  Fallen persons absolutely need
 parents of goodness who can give them rebirth as children without
 original sin, enabling each to enter the Kingdom of God.  Jesus was the
 True Father who came to give us rebirth as children of Goodness.
 Therefore, 1 Peter 1:3 says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord
 Jesus Christ!  By his great mercy we have been born anew to a living
 hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ...". This
 shows that Jesus is the source of rebirth.  He is also called the "last
 Adam" (1 Cor 15:45) and the "Everlasting Father" (Is 9:6) because he was
 to be the True Father, which Adam failedt become.
      However, to give fallen persons rebirth as children of goodness,
 there must be not only a True Father, but also a True Mother.  The Holy
 Spirit is the one who works as the True Mother with the resurrected
 Jesus. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus he must be born again -- born of
 the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).  Since the Holy Spirit came as True Mother,
 or second Eve, there are many who receive revelations, indicating that
 the Holy Spirit is a female spirit.  The Holy Spirit works to console
 and move the hearts of the people (1 Cor 12:3-10). Jesus has been
 working in the spirit world, while the Holy Spirit has been working on
 earth to cleanse the sins of mankind.  When we believe in Jesus, we
 enter the love generated by the cooperative relationship between the
 resurrected Jesus and the Holy Spirit, who are the spiritual True Father
 and spiritual True Mother, respectively.  Being born again by believing
 in Jesus and receiving the Holy Spirit means that one's spirit is made
 new and one receives true life through the love of the spiritual True
 Parents.  This is spiritual rebirth. However, since man fell both
 spiritually and physically, each person must be reborn both spiritually
 and physically.  This is the reason for the Second Coming.

                        The Meaning of the Trinity

      Up to the present, in accordance with Christian theology,
 Christians have understood that the God who has worked for the salvation
 of man is a Triune God and have believed that when he reveals himself he
 appears as one of three persons; Father, Son, or Holy Spirit.  When he
 reveals himself as the Creator, he is in the person of our Heavenly
 Father; when he reveals himself as the Saviour, he is in the person of
 the Son; and when he reveals himself as the peacemaker, he is in the
 person of the Holy Spirit.
      The theory of the Trinity has caused much debate throughout
 history. Let us look at this in light of The Principle.  If the Fall of
 man had not occurred, God would not have had to have Jesus and the Holy
 Spirit work for the salvation of man.  If Adam and Eve had perfected
 themselves as God's son and daughter, each becoming an embodiment of
 God's divine nature, then they would have been "'... perfect, as [their]
 heavenly Father is perfect'" (Mt 5:48), and they would have attained the
 ideal of union with God (Jn 14:20).  Then Adam would have become God's
 holy son, and Eve, his holy daughter.  They would have become true
 husband and wife, centered on God.  If Adam and Eve had then become one
 as the True Parents, centered on God, together with God they would have
 been the original Trinity, a trinity centered on God's Heart and ideal.
      This is the fundamental condition for realizing the Three Blessings
 and the Four Positions Foundation which fulfill God's Purpose for the
 Creation.  Yet, because of the Fall, Adam and Eve became the false
 parents of man, and failing to fulfill the Purpose of the Creation,
 formed a trinity centered on Satan.  Therefore, in order to fulfill the
 Purpose of the Creation, God had Jesus and the Holy Spirit take Adam's
 and Eve's places, as the second Adam and second Eve and as the True
 Parents.  However, in establishing the spiritual trinity centered on
 God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit accomplished only the mission of the
 spiritual True Parents.  Therefore, the Lord of the Second Coming comes
 to be the True Father who is to establish the trinity both spiritually
 and physically.

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Date       04-09-92 09:50:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND> from righteousness andn God). So really, death is referring o a
 ND> separation. BOTH of these deaths were introduced into the world
 ND> by the fall of Adam.

 I don't think the physical body was created to live eternally.  Man
 received a immortal spiritual before the fall.  We would never have had
 any need for a spirit if we were intended to live forever in the flesh.

 GEN 2:7     And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and
             breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man
             became a living soul.

 ECC 12:7    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the
             spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

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Date       04-09-92 09:56:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Dean Scott
Subject    Spirits & Magic

 DS> What IS a spirit body MADE of?

 Spiritual elements.

 DS> HOW do angels that have spirit
 DS> bodies take on the physical nature of humans in certain contacts
 DS> with man?

 They contact man's spiritual body which is fused with our physical body
 till death.

 DS> HOW is the material universe, made up of atoms,
 DS> molecules, nutrinos, quarks, etc.,  and the laws which they are
 DS> confined to, interact with that 'universe' of the spirit?  Is
 DS> there such a seperation of the two?

 Jesus passed through solid walls and appeared to people inside closed
 rooms on a couple occasions.

  Is it possible that the laws
 DS> of physics (gravity, electromagnetism, electro-weak
 DS> electro-strong that we are subject to and able to ob-
 DS> serve) are a subset of the larger set of unseen, unfelt, laws of
 DS> physics (the unified feilds theory?) that those of the spirit
 DS> are subject too?  What will materially and physically happen to
 DS> a person when they are given immortal, spirit bodies at the
 DS> Second Coming?

 Nothing obvious. People could not distinguish any difference between
 Jesus Christ and the thief that hang beside him on the cross. Our
 health, as a whole will improve when we stop polluting our bodies with
 awol, tobacco, drugs, and chemicals, and when we change out diet and
 stop eating such a high percentage of animal products.

 DS> Is there scientific language adequate to
 DS> describe this change?

 Yes, it is called good health.

 DS> Don't mean to over whelm you with the unanswerable, but God
 DS> created us and this material, physical universe, so I'm
 DS> naturally curious as to how we, being limited by its inheirent
 DS> laws, fit into that of the spirit and how they (it) interact
 DS> with ours, anyway.....

 The main thing we need to remember is that the spirit is willing but the
 flesh is weak.  In other words, since the fall of man, our physical
 bodies have taken the subject position and we find ourselves unable in
 many cases to control ourselves.

 ROM 7:22    For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: ROM
 7:23    But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of
 my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my
 members. ROM 7:24    O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from
 the body of this death?

 So the mission of the Messiah is not to come do good in our place, but
 to teach us how to restore our mind - body relationship.  The work of
 Christ is to help us develop our inner character and STRENGTHEN or
 mind so we can bring our body under its dominion.  At the same time,
 Christ will also show us how to make unity between our mind and God. So
 when Christ returns he will be a teacher to show us how to strengthen
 out mind and connect it to God.  Such a person who learns this will be
 most uncooperative with Satan.

 Anyone who preaches that Christ will do everything and we can be
 restored without any effort on our part is standing in your way.  That
 is exactly what the devil would tell you.  We have a portion of
 responsibility that only we can fulfill by ourselves.  Christianity has
 not clearly understood this.  So we find the body of Christ sitting idly
 by, waiting on Christ to come "fix" everything, and take us away to
 some other galaxy.    In the meantime, we are destroying our earth with
 pollution, and ignoring the suffering and starvation of our fellow man.

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Date       04-09-92 10:26:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject         WITNESSING

 ND>      Why not believe that Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of
 ND> Christ?
 ND> 1 Jn.2: 18,22

 1JO 2:18    Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard
 that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby
 we know that it is the last time.

 Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Kim Il San.... count em up.  It is now time for the
 real champion of God to step forward.  Anyway, what is the point of all
 this warning if Christ were really going to drop out of the sky?
 Scripture would clearly have said: "The messiah will come from outer
 space so don't worry about any antichrist."  We only are warned about
 antichrist because Christ will come back as a real man through his birth
 from a woman on earth.

 REV 12:5    And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all
 nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and
 [to] his throne.

 ND>     4: 3-6

 1JO 4:3     And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
 come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of
 antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now
 already is it in the world.

 Jesus Christ came in the flesh...  and so did the second coming of
 Christ.   Seems to me that anyone teaching either the first or second
 coming of Christ did/will not take place in the flesh is at least half
 antichrist?    Both the first and second coming of Christ will be
 realized through their birth on the earth.  On the earth is where the
 fall of man was committed.  That is where it must be restored.  That is
 why Jesus left the keys with Peter.

 ND> 2 Jn.1: 7

 2JO 1:7     For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess
 not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an
 antichrist.

 Jesus Christ came in the flesh!  And so did the Second Coming of Christ.


 ND> 2Thes.2:1-12

 Can you make your points more specific?  Just giving me whole chapters
 to read with out pointing to the specific concept of which you are
 speaking is too time consuming.

 ND> Rev. 13:17

 REV 13:17   And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the
 mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 I have no idea how this relates to Rev. Moon or Jesus?

 ND> Jacob 7:1-23

 Another whole chapter... and it is not even in my Bible!  Gee, you are
 really making it tough for me by requiring me defend my belief's in
 light of the Book of Mormon too!

 Jacob 7:9 ...this guy, Sherem, sez: "I know that there is no Christ,
 neither has been, nor ever will be."

 Well, you clearly must have forgotten that Rev. Moon certainly believes
 that there is a Christ named Jesus and that he (Rev. Moon) has had many
 occasions to meet and receive revelations from him.  He also believes
 there will be a second coming... just as there was a second coming of
 Elijah.  Do you remember the lesson learned from the second coming of
 Elijah?

 BTW... do you have the Book of Mormon on disk?  Has anyone typed it up?
 Can you call my bbs and upload it?   504-466-0126     You can call at
 38,400 baud HST.  I will put it where it can be down loaded by my users
 if it is shareware.  If not, I want a copy anyway.  <grin>

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Date       04-09-92 10:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject         WITNESSING

 ND>      Terry, how is a person in times of Christ such as Matthew
 ND> going to know that clouds were evaporated water. Also, the clouds of
 ND> the Bible were obviously clouds of glory, not the gray, sullen
 ND> clouds of rain.

 It really didn't matter because it would be a long time before Christ
 would be returning, and plenty of time to teach fallen man the meaning
 of this symbology. Had God clearly revealed that Christ would return
 born of a woman, it would have resulted in so much confusion.  It was
 better to allow people to expect such a supernatural event till the
 right time came, and then educate them.  Here is an obvious hint that
 people who were looking toward the heavens was doing something strange:

 ACS 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into
 heaven?

 Think about that.  If you ask someone why they are doing what they are
 doing it is because you think they are doing something strange.  For
 example if you saw your neighbor pushing their car down the street and
 trying to start it by jamming it into gear and popping the clutch, you
 would ask them why they are behaving in such an abnormal way.

 ND>     Are you saying that a group of purified sinners came and
 ND> took Jesus away instead of an assension?

 In speaking of Jesus' physical body, Yes.  You may find similar care was
 taken of Moses' and Jacob's bodies upon their death.

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Date       04-09-92 11:07:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject         WITNESSING

 ND>       Who told you that Mormons believe that there are a big
 ND> pile of souls in some room waiting to come to Earth? Ed Decker?
 ND> James White? Mormons believe
 ND> that we are all literally spirit children of God, and He
 ND> actually knew us before we were born. We have had personalities
 ND> and individuality. We can not be born into a mortal twice.

 Mormons told me that they believed they existed in heaven before they
 were sent to earth to be "put into" their present bodies.  I really
 never had asked about the recycling concept, but I'm glad you cleared
 that up for me.  BTW...  If you were put in once, why can't you get put
 into a body a second time and become a mortal twice, three time, etc.

 My belief is that the parents' unity at conception forms both the
 spiritual "SEED" and the physical body.  And at birth they are joined.
 Where this "seed" resides during the gestation period can be anyone's
 guess.   The main point it seems we disagree on is who creates this
 spiritual seed. I believe it is the parents, because I believe God gave
 the right and ability to His children to create another spiritual being.

 Get me your book on disk so I can check up on your position for some of
 these things.    ...not that I don't trust you... <grin>

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Date       04-09-92 12:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Carla Rygula
Subject       GOOD NEWS!

 CR> Terry, the Bible makes clear that a person's blood is sacred in
 CR> the eyes of God. And this is why no one is supposed to eat
 CR> blood.

 But anyone who eats ANY meat consumes some blood.  But are you trying to
 get people to become vegetarians?

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Date       04-09-92 13:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Jesus and family

 MJ> First of all....Jesus earthly father was Joseph, not Zacharias.

 LUK 1:38    And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto
 me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. LUK 1:39
 And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste,
 into a city of Juda; LUK 1:40    And entered into the house of
 Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth. LUK 1:41    And it came to pass, that,
 when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her
 womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: LUK 1:42    And she
 spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed [art] thou among women,
 and blessed [is] the fruit of thy womb.

 Yes, Elizabeth's husband Zacharias fathered Jesus.  That is specifically
 the meaning of Mary "saluting his wife Elizabeth.

 MJ> Second, he was God, third, his birth was for the express purpose
 MJ> of the redemption of man...if it wasn't, then his dying on the
 MJ> cross was a completely futile effort.

 Exactly, Jesus should have NOT been crucified.  His crucifixion was the
 greatest sin since the fall of man.  Jesus Christ had the power to
 restore a bride and procreate sinless children.  Sinless children grow
 up to become messiah's.  Now you know why Satan was so eager to enter
 Judas and participate with Jesus' murder.  That prevented Jesus from
 becoming a parent and fulfilling the second blessing of multiplying,
 giving God grand children.

 MAR 2:10    But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth
 to forgive sins,

 So now the hope of Christianity is the marriage of the Lamb... Rev 19:9

 Had Jesus married 2,000 years ago and restored the family there would
 have been no need for any second coming. And we wouldn't be waiting for
 the marriage of the Lamb.

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Date       04-09-92 13:08:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Jesus marriage.

 MJ> TB> Jesus Christ did not go to heaven:
 MJ>
 MJ> So, what do you see as the difference between heaven and
 MJ> paradise?

 Heaven is reserved for people who fulfill Gen 1:28, centered on God.
 Jesus did not multiply.  The spirit world has thousands of levels where
 a person will go depending on their degree of maturity they attain while
 on earth:

 MAT 18:18   Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth
 shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall
 be loosed in heaven.

 JOH 14:2    In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not
 [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 2CO 12:2    I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in
 the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God
 knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

 MJ> Proof? ( of Jesus' marriage )  Can't give it.  You are already
 choking on the meat I have give you.  You need more milk first. <grin>

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Date       04-09-92 13:14:00
From       Terry Blount
To         John Schucker
Subject    Moon

 JS> here's an interesting question for you. in genisis it says that
 JS> god gives "man," not men dominion. now jesus was man, god come
 JS> to live as man. so what
 JS> if the whole dominion thing is done with already, completed in
 JS> jesus.

 Let me see if I understand what you are trying to say:  "You think Jesus
 has dominion over the earth now?"  Jesus doesn't even have dominion over
 christianity.  There are hundreds of denominations, splintering his body
 beyond any potential to function as a force against evil.

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Date       04-09-92 13:16:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    Rev Moon.

 TB> No you don't.  You don't know who Rev. Moon really is.  All you know
 is TB> the missinformation the media has spread.  You have never talked
 to God TB> about Rev. Moon.

 MJ> That's actually quite ironic, considering I'm a reporter....

 So reporters have started talking to God?  What a revelation!

 Let me remind you that the reporters of Jesus' day were called scribes:

 Read it and weep:

 MAT 23:13    But woe unto you, REPORTERS, hypocrites! for ye shut up the
 kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves],
 neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. MAT 23:14   Woe unto
 you, REPORTERS, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a
 pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater
 damnation. MAT 23:15   Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
 for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made,
 ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. MAT 23:16
 Woe unto you, [ye] blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the
 temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the
 temple, he is a debtor! MAT 23:23   Woe unto you, REPORTERS, hypocrites!
 for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the
 weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought
 ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. MAT 23:25 Woe unto
 you, REPORTERS, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and
 of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. MAT
 23:27   Woe unto you, REPORTERS, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited
 sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full
 of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.

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Date       04-09-92 13:23:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    the last days

 MJ> You're right about one thing...these are the last days...but I'd
 MJ> suggest you try the book of Revelation to get some insight on
 MJ> what will happen.

 I have read it.  Have you?

 REV 10:11   And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many
 peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

 REV 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were]
 many crowns;and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

 REV 2:7     He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
 the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of
 life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 REV 22:2    In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the
 river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of]
 fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree
 [were] for the healing of the nations.

 REV 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may
 have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into
 the city.

 REV 2:17    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
 the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden
 manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name
 [Rev. Moon] written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].

 REV 3:12    Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
 God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of
 my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem,
 which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him]
 my new name [Rev. Sun Myung Moon].

 REV 12:5    And she brought forth a man child [Rev.Moon], who was to
 rule all nations with a rod of iron:

 REV 19:7    Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the
 marriage of the Lamb [Rev. Moon] is come, and his wife hath made herself
 ready. REV 19:9    And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which
 are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb [Rev. Moon]. And he
 saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

 REV 3:3     Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and
 hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on
 thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon
 thee.


 Well, it looks like Rev. Moon did indeed sneak up on you!  ...and you
 call yourself a reporter.  You should turn in your press card!

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Date       04-09-92 13:39:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Michael Jenkinson
Subject    The Resurrection

 MJ> Sorry, I draw the line at "saviors" who get thrown in jail for
 MJ> tax evasion.

 You would have also drawn the line at messiah's who couldn't get
 themselves down from the cross too!

 MAR 15:29   And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads,
 and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in
 three days,  Save thyself, and come down from the cross. Likewise also
 the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He
 saved others; himself he cannot save. Let Christ the King of Israel
 descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe.

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Date       04-09-92 19:44:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Buckman
Subject    God told me

 BB> Because Moon is not the Messiah.  Jesus the Christ is.  Moon is
 BB> a false teacher who is leading millions to thier destruction.

 You are wrong.  Rev. Moon is not leading anyone to destruction.  You
 don't know what you are talking about.  You will eventually learn that
 Rev. Moon's teaching is the only hope for mankind.  You can be stubborn
 and spiteful but that will only make salvation more difficult for
 yourself and your family.

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Date       04-09-92 19:52:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Cribbs
Subject    Ransom

 BC> TB> JOH 4:23    But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true
 BC> worshippers TB> shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth:
 BC> for the Father seeketh TB> such to worship him.
 BC>
 BC> Terry, that verse has nothing to do with logic.   Truth is
 BC> truth. Absolutely.   Logic cannot perfectly discern truth.   The
 BC> Spirit of God leads us and guides us into all truth.   What
 BC> Jesus was talking about here is that man does not know how to
 BC> worship God.   In our finite intellect and limited wisdom, we
 BC> don't know what kind of worship God desires.   So He sent us the
 BC> precious Holy Spirit (not Moon's wife) to reveal to us the way
 BC> God desires to be worshipped.  He gave us the gifts of the
 BC> Spirit and the fellowship of the Spirit to bring us into true
 BC> worship of the Father.

 Ok, go your own way then.   I've spoken the truth to you.

 BC> As to logic, I again refer you to 1 Cor. 2:9-16.  Pay close
 BC> attention to verse 14.

 1CO 2:14    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit
 of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them],
 because they are spiritually discerned.


 The way you apply this would exempt even the author, St. Paul.
 ....unless you believe St. Paul was not a natural man.

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Date       04-09-92 19:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Cribbs
Subject    Rightly Dividing

 BC>   When, on the day of judgment, God your Creator asks YOU:
 BC>
 BC>                  WHY DID YOU REJECT MY SON?
 BC>
 BC>                  What will YOUR answer be?

 There will not be any such questioning.  If God doesn't know what I did
 then I'll just make up something. There is no reason I should be talking
 about what I did.   Do you suppose confession and excuses would be worth
 a hill of beans at that point?  According to your doctrine salvation
 isn't dependent on what I do anyway.  You told me to read Eph. 2:8.

 BC> The Bible says, "There is none righteous, no not one."  Rom.
 BC> 3:10.

 GEN 7:1     And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house
 into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this
 generation.


 BC>And, "For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and
 BC> that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works,
 BC> lest any man should boast."  Eph. 2:8-9.

 MAT 5:20     For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
 exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no
 case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 BC> doctrine of "Once saved always saved" and have a false
 BC> security in a false doctrine.   "Be not deceived: God is not
 BC> mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also
 BC> reap."   Gal. 6:7.

 Looks like the old saved totally by grace theory is out the window.

 BC>   There is no other name under heaven, given among men,
 BC> whereby we must be saved.   Acts 4:12.


 REV 2:17    He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto
 the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden
 manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name
 written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it]. REV 3:12
 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he
 shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and
 the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh
 down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.

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Date       04-09-92 22:29:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject        QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 MB> Terry in all fairness celibacy is not a cure.   Celibacy is a
 MB> possible way of avoiding Aids.

 Correct, but....
 A pound of prevention....

 MB> If Moon were actually the Christ he could "actually" heal people
 MB> of Aids.

 Jesus can heal them too. Since people still have aids does that mean
 that Jesus is not the Christ?

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Date       04-10-92 07:53:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Phil Morrison
Subject     Qualification To Bo Bo

 PM>     ?  You have heard about Jesus ?

 What do you think? Jesus appeared to Saul and converted him.  That same
 Jesus appeared to Rev. Moon and gave him a mission too.  Jesus gave Rev.
 Moon the authority to do something that he didn't even do himself...
 give the blessing of marriage.

 PM>     Doesn't every good and perfect gift come from ABOVE?
 PM> .
 PM>     Is Moon "above"?
 PM> .
 PM>     ... not "above" certain things, it seems.

 Oh, do you mean something like this? :

 MAR 15:29   And they that passed by railed on him, wagging their heads,
 and saying, Ah, thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in
 three days, Save thyself, and come down from the cross. Likewise also
 the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He
 saved others; himself he cannot save.

 PM>     Terry, your zeal is commendable.  It is also worthy
 PM>            of a better cause.

 Humm, what do you know of my cause?

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Date       04-10-92 08:00:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject        QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 MB> The reason the Aids people are not healed is a faith problem.
 MB> Jesus "is" the Chirst.

 There you go...  you just answered your question about why Rev. Moon
 isn't curing people of aids and other diseases.

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Date       04-10-92 08:20:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Roger Hepworth
Subject     Agreement

 RH> TB>   Are you saying that God is responsible?

 RH> Yes!

 Please don't tell me that the concept of human effort has totally evaded
 your imagination.

 Why did God "MAKE" Adam eat the fruit and disobey His own commandment?

 It later brought Him grief you know.  GEN 6:6     And it repented the
 LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

 TB>   Can God do His will without our cooperation?  Why do you suppose
 God TB>   has not "put" this new spirit within people already?  Clearly
 man TB>  has TB>   responsibility.  Look at all the commandments God
 gave to help man TB>   cooperate with His will. And notice that Jesus
 clearly said that you TB>  are TB>   responsible for your own salvation:

 RH> "For by grace are ye saved though faith; and that not of
 RH> yourself: it is the
 RH> gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are
 RH> his workmanship
 RH> created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before
 RH> ordained that we should walk in them"Ephesians 2:8-10
 RH>
 RH> It says here God saved us. not by the work we did but by the
 RH> works He did. And the good works He ordaind that we (that is
 RH> Christian) should walk in them.

 So if I accept your faith then I'm no longer responsible for my actions?
 God will pick and choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? Your
 idea is wrong because it teaches that we cannot influence God.  If we
 can't influence God then we may as well live a life of cardinal pleasure
 and submit to every desire that passes our way. There is simply no
 reason for any restraint if your teaching is true.

 .....Yet we find the Bible full of advice to the contrary:

 JAM 4:7     Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he
 will flee from you.

 ROM 6:13        Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of
 unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that
 are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of
 righteousness unto God.

 REV 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may
 have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into
 the city.

 MAT 16:27   For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father
 with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his
 works.

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Date       04-10-92 08:59:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    GREETINGS

 ND> I've got a cute little statement that someone may have said
 ND> before and I am interesting in hearing a comment about it.
 ND>
 ND> this may or may not be a direct quote,
 ND> "Yes, the bible is the word of God. It is also the word of
 ND> apostles, gentiles,....

 I really don't find such a quote to be "cute" because it turns off many
 people who have found God through reading the scripture, and it
 mostlikely offends the saints in heaven who gave their lives to deliver
 this book to us today.

 I think your book on page 110 says my position best:

 9. ...And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I
 cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it
 be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it
 contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused
 more to be written.

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Date       04-10-92 09:06:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject     Holiness

 ND>      Jesus had an Earthly father named Zacharias? Isn't he the
 ND> father of John the Baptist? Could you give me a reference? This is
 ND> very interesting.

 Yes, Jesus and John the Baptist were half brothers. Another Cain Abel
 situation...

 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a
 man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come
 upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee:
 [Zacharias was the high priest at that time] therefore also that holy
 thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And,
 behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old
 age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For
 with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid
 of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed
 from her. And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country
 with haste, into a city of Juda; And entered into the house of
 Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.

 Why did Mary go in haste to the house of Zacharias as soon as she
 received the revelation that she was to be the handmaiden of the lord?
 What do you think it means to "salute Elizabeth," the wife of the high
 priest who Mary came to visit?  Do you have any problems with Zach
 having 2 wives?  After conception, God commanded Joseph to take Mary as
 his wife, but Joseph knew he wasn't the father.   This whole virgin myth
 is a result of a misunderstanding of the customs of 2,000 years ago, AND
 the failure to recognize that "virgin" simply means young woman.  This
 idea originated from Isis 7:14 where the prophecy that a "young woman"
 would bear a son called Immanuel.   The fact that NONE of the New
 Testament authors made a deal of this "virgin" concept shows they didn't
 think Jesus' mother was a virgin.   It appears that the virgin myth
 became much more important to the authors of various religious creeds
 than it was to any of Jesus' followers.

 If you can believe that God had a relationship with Mary you don't
 really think she was a virgin either.  The question you have to deal
 with is: was it Zach, working according to God's authority, or actually
 God himself?  The fact that Mary went in haste to Zach's house may help
 you see something new to consider.

 I don't believe God has the potential to materialize in a human form and
 impregnate a woman.  If this were the case then there is no rational
 reason for Him to have created Adam.  He should have started with Eve
 and only gave her daughters.  However we find that the image of God is
 both male and female.  God does not have an external feminine
 counterpart.  Both the masculine and feminine nature are embodied within
 God.  God can best be described as parents.  Parents are where both male
 and female aspects of God and creation are united.

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Date       04-10-92 09:34:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject     How can 3 be 1??!

 ND>      I am a non-trinitarian and I do not believe Jehovah to be
 ND> the Father (exept
 ND> in few instances), but rather, I believe Jehoveh to be Jesus
 ND> Christ.

 Do you?  Hummm, are you a Mormon?

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Date       04-10-92 09:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         C. Spurgeon
Subject     Your reaching but co com

 CS> " But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish  with thee, because
 CS> thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with
 CS> money." Acts 8:20

 MAT 18:32   Then his lord said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I
 forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

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Date       04-10-92 12:21:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Agreement             1/

 WC>     All these prophecies are a reference to the sufferings of
 WC> Jesus. They are all fulfilled at the First Advent. There are
 WC> many other which will be fulfilled at His Second Advent.

 Mat 11:13 says there in no prophecy of any Second Advent. The dual
 prophecies are clearly an indication that Jesus' mission could go either
 of two ways depending on the people either failing or fulfilling their
 portion of responsibility.  When you teach otherwise, you are saying
 that God is responsible for the way we use our freedom. I really can't
 figure out why you can't understand that.

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Date       04-10-92 12:30:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Agreement             2/

 WC> TB> However, you have been practicing this process you described
 WC> TB> above for 2,000 years and never once gave birth to even one
 WC> sin- TB> less baby.
 WC>
 WC>     You are correct. Neither will there be a person born without
 WC> the sin nature.

 A woman named Mary proved it could be done.  Why do you lack faith that
 Christ will restore ALL things?

 WC> TB> NUM 14:11    And the LORD said unto Moses, How long will
 WC> this TB> people provoke me? and how long will it be ere they
 WC> believe me, TB> for all the signs which I have shewed among
 WC> them?
 WC>     However, this verse in no way applies to the subject at
 WC> hand. The Scripture clearly show us that the plan of salvation
 WC> has not changed one iota. It is right on schedule. Giving birth
 WC> to sinless children is not a part of that plan.

 Scripture please.

 WC> Therefore it is an impossibility for such an event to ever occur.

 Scripture please.

 Here is one for you:

 MAT 19:26   But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this
 is impossible; but with God all things are possible. MAR 9:23    Jesus
 said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things [are] possible to him
 that believeth. MAR 10:27   And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men
 [it is] impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are
 possible.


 WC> Jesus is the
 WC> only sinless individual ever to live. All others are born with a
 WC> sin nature. The will extend into the future so long as children
 WC> are born into the world.

 You love prophecy of gloom and doom.

 REV 21:4    And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there
 shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there
 be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 Procreating children born with sin nature will someday be one of those
 former things that are passed away.

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Date       04-10-92 12:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Children              1/

 WC> TB> So what is God's plan for fixing His children so we can
 WC> parent TB> sinless children?
 WC>
 WC>     There is no such plan in existence.

 Oh, but there is now!  Just because you don't understand something or
 that you have not discovered something does not mean that is does not
 exist.

 WC>     The Scripture does not teach that man (the masses) will ever
 WC> cooperate with God either through the desire to do so or
 WC> accidentally or even through force.

 REV 21:3    And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the
 tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they
 shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their
 God.


 You are correct that the masses will not cooperate with God through
 accident or force, but you are very wrong about cooperation through
 love.  Just one taste of the love of God through the True Parents and
 you will see.

 WC> TB> God does need our cooperation ...right?
 WC>
 WC>     The Scripture does not teach that God NEEDS or is required
 WC> to have our cooperation. God is omnipotent. Scripture even gives
 WC> the answer to the question of what would happen were no one to
 WC> praise Him.

 So God is to blame for the fall of man? Didn't God need the cooperation
 of Adam and Eve's obedience to His word to avoid the fall?

 WC>     Perhaps you should explain the relationship between John
 WC> 8:44 and God recognizing marriages. I see no such relationship.

 How could the people have been born of fornication if their parents were
 actually married by God?

 WC> TB> What will God do to empower us to procreate sinless
 WC> children? TB> Think deeply before you start typing.
 WC>
 WC>     Nothing. There is no provision anywhere in Scripture for
 WC> pro- creating sinless children as you desire. Salvation is on
 WC> the individu- al. One does not gain entry to the kingdom on the
 WC> merits of what their parents accomplished or did.

 ROM 5:12    Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and
 death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have
 sinned:

 WC> It does not take
 WC> an intellectual giant to know that the bride is not an
 WC> individual woman.

 Right.  It takes prayer.

 WC> TB> The results are serious when you consider that Satan will
 WC> still TB> continue to claim your future generation.
 WC>
 WC>     Salvation remains an individual thing. It has been that way
 WC> from the beginning. No one will have eternal life based on the
 WC> merits of what his parents did or believed.

 So Mary had no merit?  God just picked her at random?  Your thinking on
 this matter is still shallow.  Think for a moment about the failures
 that resulted in loss of merits:  Why were the descendants of Abraham
 cursed to 400 years of slavery? How about the descendants of Ham?

 DEU 5:9     Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them:
 for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the
 fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them
 that hate me,

 2KI 10:30   And the LORD said unto Jehu, Because thou hast done well in
 executing [that which is] right in mine eyes, [and] hast done unto the
 house of Ahab according to all that [was] in mine heart, thy children of
 the fourth [generation] shall sit on the throne of Israel.

 WC>     There is absolutely nothing in this verse about Jesus
 WC> getting married. It has no relationship whatsoever to the
 WC> question at hand. I perceive it as a smoke screen to draw
 WC> attention away from what the Word of God says on the issue.

 The word of God says you can't discern the signs of your times Walter.
 That is the issue.  You, like the Jewish people, don't know the time of
 YOUR visitation.  You didn't pray and seed God's guidance sincerely
 enough.

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Date       04-10-92 13:31:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Prophecy

 WC>     He did more than manifest His image. God was manifested in
 WC> the flesh. Not another being but God Himself.

 I thought you said you had a math major?   If God is male and female as
 Gen 1:27 says, then how can a whole God fit into half His image?  Is
 this some kind of new math you have come up with that says:

 .5 / 1  = 1    That is incorrect. The correct answer is: .5  / 1 = .5

 Can't you see that simple math proves that Jesus at most could only be
 half God.    Wheeee....  I'm finally glad we got that settled.

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Date       04-10-92 17:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Spirit

 WC> presence. This was an action to clearly demonstrate that He was
 WC> NOT just a spirit (Luke 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a
 WC> broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.)

 I thought angels ate breakfast with Abraham and Sarah?

 WC> If it were only a temporary
 WC> thing to be cast aside at will His actions were of no purpose.
 WC> Jesus spent 40 days with the disciples after His resurrection.
 WC> He was seen by many.

 But not be everyone. And those who saw him didn't easily recognize him.

 WC>One of the primary purposes was to
 WC> demonstrate beyond any shadow of a doubt that He was truly
 WC> resurrected and resurrected in the sense that the old physical
 WC> body had been resurrected as a glorified immortal body.

 ECC 12:7    Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the
 spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 Do you think Jesus' body was made of a difference substance that Adam's?

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Date       04-10-92 18:18:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject    Moon

 ND>  A person can not tell just from the Bible if man's body was
 ND> created to live
 ND> forever. That is why teh Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday
 ND> Saints has other
 ND> books of scriptures; the bible, in itself, is incomplete. There
 ND> are many lost
 ND> books that are not in the Bible.

 That makes sense.  I have to agree with your book, page 110

 9.  ...And because I have spoken one wod ye need not suppose that I
 cannot speak another; fo r my work is not yet finished; neither shall it
 be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that is
 contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not cause
 more to be written.

 Here is my book page 1 :
 God is a living and active God.  Both throughout history and in the
 minds of people, God's active providence has left its mark.  Then, what
 of man, the object of this living God's dispensation; what has man been
 like throughout history?  At each stage in history, God has had to deal
 with man according to man's spiritual state and intellectual level, has
 man always remained the same internally, or has he been progressing and
 constantly improving?  If man had not fallen, he would have reflected
 God's character (Jn 14:20) and perfection (Mt 5:48), and thus God would
 have been able to relate to him directly.  However, Adam and Eve fell
 and became embodiments of sin and evil instead of becoming the persons
 that God had originally envisioned.  If we were to speak of how man's
 spirituality and intellect were affected by this state of separation and
 fall, we could say that they were reduced to a very base state.

 Through God's Dispensation for Restoration, the spirituality and
 intellect of fallen people have gradually developed.  As man's spiritual
 and intellectual levels have developed in each age, God has been able to
 revise accordingly the means of educating people and relating to them.
 for example, in Abraham's time, when man's spirituality and intellect
 were extremely low, God had to have people come closer to him through
 the offering of sacrifices.  The people of that time were too immature
 to respond to laws and commandments. Several hundred years later, at the
 time of Moses, God carried out the dispensation through the Law.  At
 Jesus' time, instead of repeating the same dispensation through laws or
 commandments, God worked in a new way to bring the people closer to him,
 by giving the Gospel, on a level appropriate for the spirituality of the
 people of that age.

 The fact that the Jewish people, who so devoutly believed in God, did
 not recognize his son, Jesus, as the savior is a crucial point in the
 Dispensation for Restoration.  Why were they unable to recognize his
 son, Jesus, as the savior is a crucial point in the Dispensation for
 Restoration.  Why were they unable to recognize him?  In that age, the
 people of Israel followed God through obedience to laws, but then God
 began to approach the people through Jesus himself, by means of the new
 dispensation of the Gospel.  In light of these historical facts, we can
 see that as man's spirituality and intellect develop, God has always
 adopted a correspondingly developed method to reach man.  The objects of
 the living God and his dispensation are not like fossils, but rather are
 persons who are very much alive and active.

 Then, who is the present focus of God's dispensation?  It is no the
 people of Jesus' time, nor the people of Moses' age, nor primitive man
 still further back.  It is contemporary man, living here and now.  Yet
 we cannot deny that today most young people are not interested in the
 churches and that people in general are turning away from the.  The
 rational and scientific emphasis of people today demands a clearer and
 deeper understanding of the truth and an explanation of the seeming
 contradictions in religious teachings and practices before they will
 take up a religious way of life.  As we have seen in God's historical
 process of restoration, God is alive and working, so we can know that
 God will definitely give man a new expression of truth, one that can
 lead the people of this age to salvation and a new age.

 Today, many difficult questions arise during an examination of the
 Bible.  For example, what is the proper relationship of God, Jesus, and
 man; what is the correct understanding of resurrection and the Last
 Days; why must Jesus return; and when and how will he return? Answers to
 all of these have been given in parables and symbols but they have yet
 to be clearly explained.

 We read in John 16:25 that Jesus said, "'I have said this to you in
 figures; the hour is coming when I shall no longer speak to you in
 figures but tell you plainly of the Father.'"  In John 16:12,13 we read
 that he also said, "'I have yet many things to say to you, but you
 cannot bear them now.  When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you
 into all truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever
 he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are
 to come.'"  And in Revelation 10:11 we read, "'You must again prophesy
 about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.'"  Each of these
 passages indicates that in the Last Days a new expression of the truth
 will be given.

 However, since it will be a new revelation, there will be some aspects
 which may not be understood in light of conventional doctrine or
 tradition.  For example, even though Jesus' teachings were based on the
 Old Testament, the people of his time were bound to such a literal
 interpretation of the Old Testament that they could not understand
 Jesus.  It was for this reason that Jesus said, "' ... new wine must be
 put into fresh wineskins'" (Lk 5:38); he was teaching them that they had
 to make themselves new if they were to receive the new words.

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Date       04-10-92 18:22:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Nature of God

 AS> I suspect you have accomplished the same thing as many others in
 AS> many other religions have accomplished, that is, to communicate
 AS> with another aspect of your own subconscious psyche.

 If you do have the communication I heave told you about, you will know
 there is something out there.   Have you ever prayed and then remained
 still to see if you could perceive any response?

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Date       04-10-92 18:25:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Cribbs
Subject    Ransom

 BC> I'll just go the Bible's way.   My way will send me to hell.

 The people who failed to find faith in Jesus had the Bible...
 But Jesus said to them: JOH 5:39     Search the scriptures; for in them
 ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 How can you avoid making the same mistake they made?

 BC> Paul received all he knew by revelation from the Spirit of God
 BC> through Jesus

 What a coincidence !  So did Rev. Moon.

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Date       04-10-92 18:28:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Bill Cribbs
Subject    Rightly Dividing

 TB> According to your doctrine salvation isn't dependent on what I do
     anyway.  You told me to read Eph. 2:8.

 BC> Jesus said that man WILL have to give an account for his actions
 BC> on earth. Matt. 12:36-37.   See also Romans 14:10-12 and Hebrews
 BC> 13:17 and 1 Peter 4:5.
 BC> God knows what we do.  But it is us who have to give an account.
 BC> Our account
 BC> will be judged truthful or false.   Our account of what we do on
 BC> this earth will condemn us or justify us.

 I thought you started this thread by telling me that noting man did
 made any difference and that man had no responsibility.  You concluded
 by saying that EVERYTHING was up to God.  But now, in the above
 paragraph, you swapped your story and started talking about our
 accountability.  Have you stop to think about how confused it gets when
 you aren't consistant?

 BC> If we have accepted
 BC> JESUS CHRIST as Lord and had faith in Him and not someone else
 BC> that comes in his own name then our account will be, "Lord, I
 BC> was guilty but have been washed in the blood of Jesus."   If we
 BC> have rejected Jesus Christ, our account will be, "I am guilty
 BC> and rejected Jesus Christ."

 Were people who followed St. Paul's revelation/teachings guilty of
 rejecting Christ?  Do you tink it was easier to believe that St. Paul
 met Jesus or is it easier to believe Rev. Moon met Jesus? You shold
 realize that people did in fact persecute St. Paul because just as they
 persecute Rev. Moon, they were ignorant of the truth and never stopped
 to pray about it.

 BC> We have the promise of Abraham that our faith is counted for
 BC> righteousness. Read Romans 4 and the whole book of Galatians.
 BC> That is the whole purpose of the gospel.   That we are not saved
 BC> by works of ourselves but by grace through FAITH.   If a person
 BC> HAS true faith, works will follow.   If the faith
 BC> is not genuine, good works will NOT follow.   Howbeit, works
 BC> don't save, they simply reveal true faith in a person.

 But in the end, you won't attain salvation without doing good works.

 > * Origin: Jesus Came and gave Rev. Moon a mission !! (Easter/1935)

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Date       04-10-92 18:48:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Ronald Kinietz
Subject    Rightly Dividing

 RK> Your replies are something else Terry,

 Well, thank you. <blush>

 RK> I am new here and been
 RK> starting reading your thinking about this Reve Moon.

 Oh, don't judge Rev. Moon by me... I'm just a little man.

 RK> I am going to work up a reply after seeking the Lord.

 Good idea.  Seek the Lord first!

 RK> I felt the Untcion of
 RK> the Holy Ghost to jump in here and tell you yes that you will
 RK> stand before the Lord. And you WILL be TRIED by the FIRE and
 RK> your works will be burnt up. What is left are your rewards.

 Sounds fair to me.  I read that somewhere...  yes here it is:

 MAT 16:27   For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father
 with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his
 works.

 RK> If your works are laied up are hay and stubble they will be burt
 RK> up, if your works are of presious stone you will recieve that
 RK> reward. The foundation has been laid and what you lay on top is
 RK> intirely up to you. That foundation is the Lord Jesus Christ. I
 RK> wish you the best of luck on your path and pray that Jesus opens
 RK> your eyes as time is coming to a screatching halt.

 Thanks.  I will pray for you also.

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Date       04-10-92 18:55:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Alan Smith
Subject    Why Not

 AS>  It makes sense to me that when something is wrong, that we should
      look inside that thing to learn how it came to exit as it is, and
      once its internal workings are exposed, something can more easily
      be changed.

 That is exactly my opinion also.  You know that if you want to kill a
 tree, you have to kill the roots.  How can we find the root of crime,
 suffering and unhappiness?   Is the misdirection of love the root of all
 our problmes?   That is my conclusion.

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Date       04-10-92 18:58:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject          WITNESSING

 ND>      In revelation, when it says "born of a woman" and "caught
 ND> up to God" it can only be talking about Jesus Christ!

 Why would Rev. be talking about something that already happened?   I
 thought that was a book of prophecy of coming events in the future?

 ND> Moon caught up to God? Does he have an immortal body?

 Yes, he was called by God and No, someone could crucify him just like
 they did to Jesus.

 ND> Also, I do
 ND> not believe Jesus Christ to come down from outer space. But I do
 ND> believe that he will reappear to us in the same manner of the
 ND> way he appeared to those on this continent almost 2,000 years
 ND> ago. He will seem as a bright light off in the distance, and
 ND> then  the
 ND> light will get brighter as he approaches and finally he will
 ND> come down to the Earth in a cloud of glory and rule the Kingdom
 ND> with a rod of iron.

 Are you any kin to Stephen Spillburg?  Whether you are expecting Jesus
 to come from 3,000 feet or 3,000 miles really won't make any difference
 if the return of Christ is fulfilled like the return of Elijah... who
 BTW was the only person to go away and return... and the ONLY example we
 have to evaluate the fulfillment of such a prophecy of a second coming.

 ND> If you want a copy of the B of M send me your addess via Netmail
 ND> and I'll send you one withing a week.

 I want it on disk so I can pick it apart. <Grin>  I already have a hard
 copy.  I think I sent another person a few quotes from it by mistake,
 thinking he was a mormon too.   Oh well, it probably won't hurt him to
 read from your book.  <Grin> It was some interesting stuff. I especially
 like page 522 v.14.

 And check out your own usage of the terms clouds and waters:
 P 200 v. 11  and  p 28 v. 11

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Date       04-10-92 19:17:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject          WITNESSING

 ND> same Jesus, which IS TAKEN UP from you into heaven, shall so
 ND> come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
 ND>
 ND> In other words: instead of preaching Christ's gosple and
 ND> spreadig the good news, they were still looking up where Jesus
 ND> left, worried, and amazed.

 No, think again about how Christ was taken:   he was surrounded by
 faithless people who failed to believe in him and follow him.  He was
 mocked and had fled for his life on several occasions, and finally as he
 hang dieing on the cross denied by everyone, he was jeered by the very
 people he came to save...  as they shouted: "If you are the Christ, get
 yourself down and save yourself."   That pretty much describes the same
 warm welcome Rev. Moon has been blessed with here in America... doesn't
 it?

 Rev. Moon was given his mission by Jesus Christ, on Easter Sunday 1936
 to teach a new revelation to Christianity and to unite the body of
 Christ.  He tried to do that till he was finally imprisoned by some
 christian ministers who turned him over to the North Korean communist to
 be sentenced to death in a concentration work camp.  He continued
 teaching even in prison and as a result of the failure christian people
 who where prepared by God to support him he eventually began the Holy
 Spirit Association for the Unification of Christianity.  That was in
 1951 after he had escaped from the communist death camp, where he was
 imprisoned for 2 years and 8 months. After escaping and carrying a man
 on his back over 400 miles to Pusan AND trying for several years to gain
 the support of the christian groups God had prepared he began the U.C.

 Because of their failure, he had to personally take on a 40 year
 indemnity course to restore the failure of christianity.  That course
 ended in 1991. Exactly at the end of that indemnity condition he met
 with Gorbechev and opened the way to educate the people of former soviet
 union about the will of God. I have been there and so has my wife.
 Thousands of young people have attended Divine Principal seminars.
 Already, in 1 year, more Russian young people know the content of Rev.
 Moon's teachings than do the young people in America where we have been
 working for 20 years.  And these seminars have only been give to English
 speaking Russians.

 What does this all mean?  When we study some of the parables that Jesus
 taught we can easily see that America stands in great peril of loosing
 our blessing to another country.  Note the parable of the talents and
 especially what Jesus said would happen to the nation of Israel as a
 result of their rejecting him:

 MAT 21:43   Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken
 from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. MAT
 21:45   And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
 they perceived that he spake of them.

 I thought God prepared your faith to be His foothold in America.  But
 I'm sorry to say, I don't see Mormons seizing the opportunity that
 christianity has forfeit.  Your movement is THE MOST prepared to
 understand the Divine Principle.  And your group has persecuted Rev.
 Moon the least (not digging a hole for yourself).  Actually, none that I
 am aware of.... so you are in a perfect position to take their birth
 write, just as Jacob got from Esau.  Christianiy has persecuted you,
 puting you in a position to know the suffering heart of God. Now if you
 want their blessing you only have to understand the Divine Principle and
 everything they have worked for will be yours.  Don't be content with a
 few temples and a few hotels and resturant chains. The whole christian
 foundation is topling now.  Look at their failure to unite enough to
 solve even the most simple problems.  Look at what their children are
 doing. Christians in America have forgotten the glory of standing on the
 front line for God.  They are truly the ones who the book of Rev. speaks
 of as having gotten drunk on the blood of the saints.

 If you truly want to earn the title of "Latter Day Saints," you have to
 do something extraordinary. P 31 v. 11 -If ye will not harden your
 hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with
 diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be known
 unto you.  ....Behold, I say unto you, Yea; they shall be remembered
 again among the house of Israel; they shall be grafted in, being a
 natural branch of the olive-tree, into the true olive-tree.

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Date       04-10-92 20:12:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Nick Diprima
Subject          WITNESSING

 ND> and the ones who are worthy will go to the celestial Kindom with
 ND> God, and the best ones will become exalted.

 Well, let's be among the best ones!

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Date       04-11-92 07:54:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject        QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 MB> I know I answered it.  Jesus is the Christ.  Moon is an
 MB> anti-christ.

 The definition of an anti-christ is one who does not confess that Jesus
 came in the flesh. You did not know that Rev. Moon teaches that Jesus
 DID come in the flesh.

 1JO 4:3     And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is
 come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of
 antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now
 already is it in the world.

 2JO 1:7     For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess
 not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an
 antichrist.

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Date       04-11-92 07:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Keith Suggs
Subject    The Trinity

 KS> If you believe that the Trinity means three gods and not one God
 KS> with three distinct personalities, then you have not understood
 KS> the reams of Scripture that I have quoted in this continuing
 KS> crusade.  What has clouded your reasoning?

 Maybe the strong warnings about worshiping one God?  The result of
 Polytheism are too dangerous to be experimenting with ideas like the
 trinity that say there is: God the Father ( 1 )  and God the Son ( 2 )
 and God the Holy spirit ( 3).  This belief really has no relevance for
 salvation other than the possibility for losing it for believing in
 multiple gods, therefore is NOT a brilliant idea.

 The Bible speaks of many things you should do and believe in order to be
 saved, but none of them are associated with any belief in a complex
 triple God scheme.

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Date       04-11-92 15:57:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Mike Barefield
Subject        QUALIFICATION TO TO B

 MB> How can you follow another (Moon)?  Jesus is the only one that
 MB> has the words of eternal life.  He is the only Holy One of God.

 I suppose I realize that God is big enough to have another son.  Adam
 was his first son, Jesus was his second, and I have been given the
 knowledge that Rev. Moon is His third son.   Don't worry about Jesus
 getting angry with you for trying to understand the message his younger
 brother has given to mankind during YOUR own lifetime.  You can't begin
 to imagine what a blessing it is to be living at this time in history.
 Anyone who has lived before you, or who will ever come after you would
 give anything to be living on earth at this very moment.  Just simply
 ask God if this the most important time in the entire history of the
 world.

 MB> John 14:6 Jesus says...
 MB>
 MB> I am the way, the truth,  and the life; no one comes to the
 MB> Father, but through me.
 MB>
 MB> That leaves no room for another (Moon).

 Does that rule out the possibility and power of Jesus Christ to anoint
 his younger brother to fulfill his second coming?

 MB> This idea of another Chirst or another gospel is not a new idea.
 MB> Paul dealt with if very firmly in the book of Galatians.  I
 MB> think this warning should be taken very seriously.

 I totally agree. And would go even farther to say that even so much as
 taking St. Paul's word as being that of God from Christ is something we
 should not consider a given.  We have the responsibility to check out
 everything we hear to the best of our ability.

 MB> Galatians 1:6-8
 MB> I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting HIM (Jesus) who
 MB> called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which
 MB> is really not another only there are some who are distrubing
 MB> you, and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

 I don't believe you have a clear idea of what someone would do to go
 about distorting the gospel of Christ.  The gospel of Christ leads
 people to seek, believe and to follow God and God's laws.  This is
 exactly what Rev. Moon has been doing all his life.

 Now, where does Rev. Moon disagree with the gospel of Christ?  There is
 no example I am aware of.  The only problems that have surfaced are a
 result of human interpretation of the Word.  We have to be very careful
 in pre-judging.  The people pre-judged Jesus according to their own
 expectations and they made a fatal mistake.  How can the repetition of
 that history be prevented?

 MB> But even though we, or an angel from Heaven, should preach to you
 MB> a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you, let him
 MB> be accursed.

 What specifically do you think Rev. Moon is teaching that is contrary to
 scripture?   I know Rev. Moon's teaching does not follow traditional
 christian dogma on ever point, but does that prove Rev. Moon is wrong?
 Surely the traditional interpretations we have received were handed down
 from our human ancestors that had the same agony with understanding
 God's will for man that we are having today.  If everything was as clear
 as some people think it is, then there is absolutely no reason for 100's
 of denominations of Christianity to spring up from reading the same
 Bible.  If everything was so obvious then why is God and mankind still
 suffering?  And still separated?  The object of God's heart is not the
 people of 2,000 years ago, it is you and I, the people living on earth
 today at the very moment you are reading this message.

 MB> Acts 2:36
 MB> Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God
 MB> has made Him both Lord and Christ - this Jesus whom you have
 MB> crucified.

 Jesus was and still is the Christ of the first coming. But if you
 seriously dig deep enough to understand how the second coming of Elijah
 took place you have to at least give fair consideration to the
 possibility that the second coming of Christ may take place in a similar
 manner.

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Date       04-11-92 20:37:00
From       Terry Blount
To         Walter Copes
Subject    Here & Hereafter

 WC> TB> Excerpts from "Here and Hereafter"  by  Anthony Borgia  from
 WC> his TB> communiations with the spirit of Monsignor Robert Hugh
 WC> Benton, a TB> son of Edward White Benson former archbishop of
 WC> Canterbury
 WC>     The conversation did not take place between a living person
 WC> and the spirit of one dead. It was with a demonic spirit for the
 WC> purpose of deceiving people.

 Yeah, like you would know.

 WC> TB> The rest of the newly-arrived person is frequently
 WC> advisable, or TB> necessary, to allow of adjustment of the
 WC> spirit body to its new TB> condition of life.
 WC>
 WC>     Where in Scripture does one find a verification for this?

 It is the same chapter that describes seat belts save lives.

 WC> TB> The magnetic cord, in such cases, will become detached from
 WC> the TB> earthly body gently
 WC>
 WC>     This is an obviously demonstrable lie. Such a "magnetic
 WC> cord" can be detected by instruments. We have satellites today
 WC> that are capable of detecting the magnetic field of a submarine
 WC> when it is under the water (even the ice of the pole). If such a
 WC> "magnetic cord" in fact existed it would be very easy to detect
 WC> it with instruments presently available. The "magnetic cord"
 WC> thing is nothing but myth. Such a thing does not exist. It is
 WC> nothing more than the lies of a demonic spirit attempting to
 WC> deceive people unfamiliar with Scripture.

 For what purpose?

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Date       04-11-92 20:41:00
From       Terry Blount
To         William Le Var
Subject     the last days

 WL>   Are you claiming that Mr. Moon is the second coming of Jesus?

 Not really. I believe God has had 3 sons, Adam, Jesus and now Rev. Moon.
 Rev. Moon is a member of the "Christ" family -- like Jesus was.

 If you study the second coming of Elijah your eyes could be opened to
 understand who Rev. Moon is.

 WL> If so, might
 WL> I ask what you have been smoking?  I have not, as of yet, seen
 WL> Satan on Earth.

 If you haven't seen Satan working on earth you should be the one
 confessing your smoking habits.

 WL> And if so, was wondering why Mr. Moon came preaching another
 WL> Jesus.  That which is not according to prophesy.

 Humm,  I never knew there was "another Jesus,"  and after following Rev.
 Moon for 16 years I never heard him mention anything about another
 Jesus.  If someone told you there was another Jesus then I would suggest
 you look upon their claim with skepticism and doubt.